planning Apisto biotope...need locality help

[DravenXavier]

Ok, so I'm looking to set up a 24 gallon biotope setup for a pair of Apistos. As far as the setup, it will have some decent woodscape, a sand base (probably something fine, like play sand), leaf litter, and possibly some sparse planting. I'm also looking into tankmates, and have become slightly obsessed with Poecilocharax weitzmani. Now, fishbase lists the locality of P. weitzmani as "upper Solimões, upper Negro, and upper Orinoco River basins". So, what Apistogramma species can be found within this range? If anyone has any advice on the setup itself, or can list a couple plants, it would be very helpful!

 

[Greg PL]

Can't help you with the biotope part, P. weitzmani is not a perfect tankmate for apistos. they are quite aggressive and I've heard of several cases when they successfully attacked other fish's eyes. I had them in a separate tank for a while, with no other fish.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
DravenXavier, the "Upper Solimões" is the upper regions of the Amazon, so a white water river with some bases and approx. neutral pH. The other river basins cover most of NE S. America, and would be much more acid and base poor clear water/black water streams. I think probably the fish isn't in the main river, but in the forest pools and igarapes.

I've never kept Poecilocharax weitzmani, but this would suggest that it probably isn't happy unless it's in tannic, low pH, base poor water. It also says it isn't easy to find or keep.
<http://www.weichwasserfische.de/poecilocharax.htm>

Translated from the german:
<http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.weichwasserfische.de%2Fpoecilocharax.htm&sl=de&tl=en>

this article mentions collection of the fish with Apistogramma cf uaupesi.

The other thing is I'm not sure it would be all that successful with Apistogrammas as I know it behave much more like a Cichlid itself rather than a Tetra, with competition for food, spawning caves, fry predation etc.
Might be a case of either Poecilocharax or Apistogramma.

Most people keep Pencil fish (Nannostomus) as dithers, or small tetras like Axelrodia riesei or "Splash" Tetras - Copella etc., have a look through the posts for others.

I think the setup gives you some hope of success, as long as you can keep very high water quality. I like plants in all my tanks, but in this case you might struggle to find ones that will grow successfully, Limnobium (Amazon Frogbit) would be a possibility, and possibly Potomageton gayii. If you don't mind plants from other continents Nile cabbage (Pistia), Anubias, Bolbitis, Java moss, Java Fern and some of the more acid water Cryptocorynes may all grow successfully.

Someone like Ed may be able to suggest some others.

cheers Darrel

 

[DravenXavier]

I'm not trying for a very heavily planted tank. If anyone happens to have the April 2009 issue of Aquarium Fish International, I'm drawing most of my inspiration from their Orinoco biotope setup. I'll probably just have some sparse Xmas moss on some of the wood, and a small amount of one other plant.

As for the P. weitzmani, I do have another tank they can be moved to if they start to get aggressive. That being said, I'd like to stick to another type of fish that's not very common. I'm liking the coral red pencilfish, but I'd like something a bit smaller, maybe. Green neon tetras are another option, and they stay smaller, which I like. Any other possibilities, well, suggestions are always welcome. I may go for more of a "South American" biotope, rather than a specific one if I have to, since it's getting harder to match things up. I'd very much like to add Zebra Otocinclus, and perhaps a species of pygmy Corydoras, but with so many variables, it's going to get difficult to find an overlap with everything.

 

[dw1305]

Hi again,
There should be a few threads on keeping nano fish, we had one recently

<http://www.forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=8402&highlight=nano+fish>

but I can't remember which were suggested as dithers.

Most people go for dithers that have small mouths and stay in the upper layers of the tank, or alternatively shoal fairly tightly, Green Neons may be a little too bottom orientated and solitary, and be perceived as more of a threat.

I know several members keep Killi's with their Apistogrammas, quote "The Epiplatys are great as they stay near the top and don't seem to interact with the Apistogrammas at all. Other than them any of the Aphyosemions, especially those in the Chromaphyosemion group, should work well", and I'm sure someone mentioned Blue Eyes (Pseudomugil gertrudae).

I'm not sure how well Otocinclus get on in a lightly planted tank. I've kept mine (not O. cocama) for several years in a lushly planted tank, but a lot of reports suggest that they don't do very well without plants. Same applies to C. habrosus and C. pygmaeus, but I have no experience with these.

The floating plants are partially to cut down the light, but also to provide more surfaces for the biofilm to grow on.

cheers Darrel

 

[DravenXavier]

I know what you mean about fish that stay near the upper portions of the tank. I was thinking of Epiplatys annulatus, but it's African, so a no go. I think Psuedomugils are from Australia, so they're out, too. As are pretty much all of the nano rasboras, and most of the other fish I was looking to keep haha. I'm trying not to make too many compromises, but I'll settle for fish from the same continent. I know hatchets are usually used, but they have no appeal to me. Perhaps if I can find some other non-annual killie that stays on the small side, it'll be a consideration. Pencils don't really appeal to me either, with the exception maybe of the coral reds, and N. espei. All this being said, I'm not out to produce huge numbers of fry, so it doesn't have to be a completely fool-proof dither. Some fry making it here and there would be nice, though.

As for the otto's and such, there should be a lot of biofilm available in the tank. The majority of the wood will be relatively fresh...dried thoroughly, but still containing the bark, etc., and I'm sure will immediately generate quite a bit of "stuff" for a while. The tank will run at least a couple weeks before anything is added at all, so I think I'll have to make that call after I see what everything's doing in there. I'd love some floating plants as well, but I don't think it's feasible in this tank. I plan to screen off the lights pretty heavily for shading, with some holes for bright spots, as well. Thanks for all the help so far...this planning stage is always the most work, to me haha!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
DravenXavier, yes wrong continent for the Australian Blue Eyes, African Killis, Asian Raspboras etc. I think Hatchets are quite tricky, I fed my Marbled Hatchets mainly on greenfly and some Fruit flies, eventually I gave up because, I couldn't get them to breed, and I didn't have the time to devote to keeping the "wingless fruit fly culture" wingless, and it became overun with "wild type" flies, which aren't easy to feed to fish.

I agree that mature tanks are important. I'm probably in a minority of one, I like to leave mine for several months set up and running, until the water parameters are stable, and they have a some mulm and a good population of Malaysian Trumpet Snails, Daphnia, Asellus, Cyclops etc. in fact I usually keep one like this all the time without any fish, although I have started adding Cherry Shrimps too them.

I'd still prefer floating plants to a screen, they are more flexible, and you can keep them where you want them (by using nylon fishing line to divide the tank into sections at/just below the water line). I must admit I don't bother now, and I just move the filter out flow direction occasionally so they end up in different places. I like Salvinia as a S. American floater, it doesn't mind what the pH of the water is, has dangling "roots", (modified fronds really), grows like a weed and is easy to remove when you get too much.

I've just had a look through "the Krib" for S. american Killis as dithers, not very encouraging but Rivulus are mentioned as a possibility "Rivulus (cylindraceus, magdalenae?) are OK as well".

I've use Black Neons as my dithers, cheap and easy to obtain and they are fine in a very weedy tank, although they do pick of the odd fry. They also colour up really well in soft water, and look far better than the sad, unhappy ones you see in LFS.

Microman (Mark Breeze) sells/sold dithers in the UK, and he had a S. American live bearer for sale for a while - Poecilia caucana. Pete Lovett also keeps/kept them.

Quote "Poecillia reticulata SP rio negro and Poecillia reticulata SP rio caucana(also Columbia) are better suited to Apistos and go as low as 5pH in their natural environment. Poecillia SP cumana(Venezuela) is another good endler type that will also be good and likes the lower ph values."

Best of luck Darrel

 

[DravenXavier]

Hmm...I'm looking around at some Rivulus killies, and I'm definitely seeing some I like. So that's a very good possibility. I think I've narrowed my choices for other fish down to a pair of Rivulus, green neons (or not...we'll see), Otocinclus cocama, and one of the 3 species of dwarf Corydoras. To me, it seems like too many species for a biotope, even a general "South American" biotope, but if I omit either the Rivulus or the green neons, it should work out.

I like that idea with the fishing line. The tank I'll be using is a 24 gallon Aquapod, so the top is closed. I suppose I could go with a lower water line to compensate, though.

 

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi guys,

just came back from two more exciting discovery expedition with several new species found in Nagaland...(where is it?). Never anyone collected there before. Took me 30 years to get to it, and finally got a permit...

That is not Apistogramma country, but when I first researched for fishes in India (where Nagaland belongs to - still), in the late 1970s and in the 1980s (Channa bleheri was than one of my highlights today the most asked for dwarf snakehead world-wide, and the Indian Government thanks me for the taxonomy it brings in), I realized, that Badis badis (than only a single species was known) was living exactly like Apistogramma species in most parts of South America. Amazing. This small cichlid-like fish has taken the same niche as Apistos - on the other side of the world. And in every creek or lake I researched I found another form/variant/species and I said already "There are as many Badis species in the subcontinent and all the way down to Thailand as Apisto species in SA." Well, Kullander et al. took it on. Now we have more than 12 different Badis and one Dario species and it is just the top of the iceberg, as we say...

On this trip, I believe, I found at least 3-4 new ones (striking colours - soon some on my website) and one dwarf Daria sp., certainly new, with fantastic colours, but only 9-10mm TL (less than 172 inch...). Perfect for Nano- aquaria.

I am telling you this all, because this great forum should include them, they are dwarfs as well, although not cichlids, but damn look alike... (and behave like Apistos most of the time).

But I also wanted actually to tell you in reference to biotope aquarium for Apistos, please have a look at my Apitogramma-biotope-aquarium I decorated last October at the Zierfische & Aquarium in Duisburg, Germany (see my website under Bleher's Biotopes). I gave them an authentic biotope and in minutes after placing, they started to spawn... have a look.

Also I placed under LATEST NEWS an authentic Apistogramma biotope i researched last August near the Colombian-Brazilian border. Amazing habitat and several species I found there.

Besides you find larger cichlids on my abstarct of Alto Jutaí expedition, also last August - all on my home page.

Now you all take care and keep up and going this great work, and hopefully I see you all (or some of you) in London, Ontario, mid May (15-17th). I am giving 3 very large lectures for the 50th Anniversary of the Canadian Aquarium Club Association sponsored by Rolf C. Hagen. You will miss something if you donbt come...

Always

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bkleher.com
www.aqua-aquapress.com

 

[Bev N]

Hello Heiko,

Interesting that you would mention the dario. I recently got a shipment of what was only discribed as New Red Dario. They are tiny but very colorful little fish. This is the fist I've kept them and of course will not be able to restrain myself from keeping a few pairs for myself. I think there may be more females than males in the lot though. I have rarely met a fish I didn't like. My only problem is that I will never have enough tank space nor enough time to enjoy them all.

India has some very unusual and beautiful fish. I just wish that some of them traveled better. Pipe fish are one of the ones that have intrigued me but I've not been able to get in good condition. Hopefully I'll be able to located a good exporter for them in the future.

It's always interesting to hear of your latest adventures as most of us will never have the opportunity to see all the things you have.

Thank you