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75 gallon Rio Negro blackwater biotope...mostly

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
First post, but I've been scouring the site for ideas, information and inspiration for a while now.

I got into planted tanks about 10 years ago and then set up my first blackwater biotope in a Mr. Aqua 17 gallon last April. I managed to keep the TDS below 150ppm and pH around 6.2, even with hard Florida tap water. I never once cleaned the filter, rarely did more than 1 gallon water change at a time, the tank parameters were rock solid and the fish were showing great colors.

We moved to Greenville SC in January and I was pleasantly surprised when I tested the water here: TDS = 25ppm, GH = 1-2 and KH = 1-2. Pretty much perfect. I thought about a 125 gallon Geophagus setup, but decided to go with a 75 and try my hand with some dwarfs (dwarves?) instead.

75 gallon 48x18x21in (280L 120x46x53cm, doesn't translate to metric well)
Temp - 80F (26.6C)
TDS - 83ppm (grabbed seasoned water from my holding tank for plants, had ferts in it)
pH - 7.4 (seems strangely high)
36" Finnex Stingray
24" ZooMed T5 double fixture
Eheim 2217
Fluval 304
Hydor 300w inline heater
Substrate - pool filter sand with a few handfuls of boiled gravel from the creek
Various pieces of wood
100+ Magnolia grandiflora leaves
Plants - Echinodorus 'Aschersonianus', Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Microsorum pteropus

Planned stocking:
15x Carnegiella strigata
8x Corydoras sterbai
8x Hyphessobrycon columbianus
20x Nannostomus marginatus
? Dicrossus filamentous
? Taeniacara candidi

3/11/16 - still cycling
75%20gallon_zpslm4jl52x.png~original


I may block out some of the light with pet proof screening attached to lighting egg crate (that plastic grid stuff that goes in fluorescent lighting at work). I like the darker, dappled effect, but I need to see how the swords react. The long exposure created some blown out areas, it's not that bright in person.

I think I have all the wood where I want it. I hope the Echinodorus in the back left corner grow up and out enough to cover the filter intakes. I might throw another sword in the back, right of center. The Brazilian pennywort looked great when I bought it, but withered away to just the stems in a few weeks; new growth is starting again, but it'll be a looooong time before it's a nice thick, green mat covering the surface. The java fern might not stay, not thrilled with it. The 80 billion leaves create a lot of hiding places and should stain the water and release a good amount of humic acid, but they don't seem to be making a dent in the pH yet. I'm lucky to live about 500 feet from a couple big Magnolia trees, their leaves are thick and sturdy, they last forever and have a less identifiable shape than regular old oak leaves.

About the stocking...this will not be treated as a breeding tank! Just wanted to get that out of the way. Colombian tetras will go in first because they are inexpensive and I can actually pick them up at Petco. The LFS where I bought my tank carries saltwater and African cichlids, nothing else, unfortunately. I was thinking about a Rio Negro inhabitant like C. adolfoi or C. duplicareus, but the price put me off. C. sterbai should handle higher temps well. I've never owned pencilfish so I thought "why not" and the hatchets...I will keep them inside the tank this time.

As for the D. filamentous and T. candidi...I know they are on the difficult end of the spectrum, but I want to give them a go. I'm hoping 80F, TDS 50ppm and a pH of 5.5 should suffice. I was tentatively thinking about 6x D. filamentous and 2x T. candidi, if that's not feasible, I'd like to hear opinions. I think I have enough leaves, obstacles and dithers to keep the bloodshed to a minimum.

So now, I wait. The ammonia is gone and the nitrites are sky high. I'll test the water again on Sunday.
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
By Thursday, the tank parameters were good so I went out and got 8 Colombian tetras. They were shoaling nicely for a little while, but have decided to disband and peck at each other instead.

CT2_zpsaex8xmwq.png~original


CT1_zpsdmdwy1m6.png~original


And a new tank shot. I moved some wood and added a few vine-like pieces. Added an Amazon sword towards the back (not visible). The water is getting nice and stained. pH is still fairly high at 7.36.

75%20gal%203-19-16_zpsfxg375pl.png~original


Rethought my stocking levels:
11x Carnegiella strigata
8x Corydoras sterbai
8x Hyphessobrycon columbianus
16x Nannostomus marginatus
7 Dicrossus filamentous
Total of 50 fish.
I hope to have the Hatchets and Corys in by Tuesday.
 

chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
333
Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
Sadly there is only 1 picture available and that is the one of your colombian tetra. They are know for pecking at each other and i believe the solution is the increase their amount.

Only going for the filamentous sounds like a good plan and i would not recommend mixing both. Filamentous fare well in water that has a higher ph than the 5.5 you are aiming for. A ph of 5.5 would only be needed to breed one of them. You wondered how your ph could be so high and that's probably due to the bits of creek gravel you selected. Your water is really soft which leads to a really sensitive ph. Meaning small bits can already increase or decrease your ph by huge amounts. The most important thing for dwarves is that you have soft water, which you have. Ph comes in mind when you try to breed them but even that can happen in higher ph levels.

For the pencil fish and the hatchets i would say maybe you want to choose only 1 species and buy a bigger amount of them. I currently have 3 marginatus left in my tank (60cm high) and they swim really at the upper level of the water same as the hatchets. If you like 2 species swimming through each other than definetly keep this plan, i just like my tanks more if there is one shoal at the top, one in the middle and something at the bottom of the tank. Just wanted to give you this as a piece of advice so you know a bit about how it will look.

And now the last thing i would like to ask you, please upload another picture of your whole tank since the one i can see already looks great :)
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
I'm hosting photos through Photobucket (I know, I know) and the photos are sometimes all coming up for me. I just did a page refresh and I can now see all the photos. Let me see if I can figure out another way to get the photos to show up.

As long as the Colombians keep the pecking amongst themselves, I'm not too worried about it.

I was kinda thinking about that little bit of gravel in there having an effect, but figured it wasn't enough to really do anything. I should be able to scoop most of out, I might try that later today and see if that hasn't any effect. The water is getting really dark with tannins, and I'm very surprised the pH is not lower. That is a possible explanation.

A HUGE school of marginatus might look pretty cool actually. I don't mind it being "crowded" at the top of the tank; I just didn't want to have two schools of tetras.
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
Fortunately, I placed most of the creek gravel towards the front of the tank. I scooped out a decent amount and I also removed two river rocks about the size of small chicken eggs. Maybe they were contributing to the buffering. I really hope the pool filter sand isn't the problem, that would be a pain to remove.
 

chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
333
Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
pencil fish are really cool. I also own some nannostomus eques, these are my real favorite fish. I now see some more photo's :) Some stones can actually be used in tanks and stil keep low ph, it really depends on the type of stone. To just be sure you can better scope them out.
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
I was curious about the buffering capacity of my water, so I tested it:
GH - 2
KH - 3
I then tested the tap water:
GH - 1.5 (very faint color at 1, definite at 2)
KH - 1.5 (same as GH)

I think I'll keep doing water changes until I hit 50ppm and then see where the pH falls.
 

chris1805

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
333
Location
Odijk, the Netherlands
You already stated you didn't want to breed fhe dicrossus, with that in mind i really would not try to hard to change your water parameters :) These are totally fone to make all your fish feel comfortable
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
I got 8 C.sterbai on Friday and 3 died pretty quickly. I think it was because they went from a distributor then to my LFS tanks set up for African cichlids and then to my low TDS set up. The water from my LFS measured somewhere around 1400 on my TDS meter; I remember seeing 135 and thinking that wasn't so bad, but then I noticed a flashing 'x10' on the readout. Holy crap. I took over 3 hours to acclimate them down to about 130 or so before putting them in my 90ppm water.

The Carnegiella strigata came in on Monday, they ordered me 14 and charged me for 10, which kinda made up for the lost cories. Their water measured about 760 ppm on my TDS meter. After about a 70 min acclimation process, I dropped them in and have only lost 1 so far. They're pretty lazy but look cool just chilling out at the surface. I cut up some plastic egg crate stuff for overhead lights to place on the tank to make sure they didn't leap out of the back of the canopy, but it blocked/reflected too much light. I took it down and placed it in the opening in the back of the canopy. No jumpers yet.

The water is looking way too authentically murky, making it hard to see the fish and the plants look stunted. I took out about 15 leaves and I'll need to do another water change. pH is holding steady around 7.3-7.4, I'm guessing the substrate is acting as a buffer. Oh well, not a big deal.

You can see some really nice iridescent greens and blue on the hatchets.













 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
The tank looks beautiful what type of leaves did you have in the tank that you took out

Thanks. I put in about 100 magnolia leaves (Magnolia grandiflora). They give off a good amount of tannins, look non-familiar (unlike oak leaves) and last months in the tank before breaking down. They look awesome and do the job of staining the water, it's just that they are doing too good of a job. I might take even more out the tank, I'm tired of doing water changes every 4 days just so I can see the fish.
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
It's been a while.
Of the 14 hatches I got, half died. They didn't all die in a matter of days, it was over the course of two weeks. I thought that was a little strange. The 4 cories are still kicking and the tetras spawned, at least twice. I've got 15+ baby tetras of varying sizes out and about. I'm guessing I'll keep them all, as I have enough room. I'm still not decided on whether I'll get any N. marginatus though.

I removed the 24" double T5 fixture I had placed towards the back and replaced it with a 48" T5 Sunblaster. Now I'm happy with the light levels in the tank, not too bright, but I can actually see the fish now. I still have the 36" LED fixture, which is providing maybe 20% of the light at this point. The Hydrocotyle leucocephala (Brazilian pennywort) seem much happier now. I removed the swords and placed them in a fertilized tank with that 24" T5 fixture in hopes of reviving them. They were wasting away to nothing...we'll see.

I have my LFS on the hunt for some checkerboard cichlids, I'm thinking 7 might be a good number. After that, I'll add a few more Sterbai to bring the number up to 8 and I think I'll be done with livestock.

TDS - 77ppm
pH - 7.07 (lowest I've ever seen it)

I'm still doing weekly water changes, the TDS is consistently in the 70-80 range. The only thing I can't figure out is the extremely prolific scum layer on the surface. I fashioned a DIY skimmer from a water bottle and a powerhead and I hook a hose up to the outlet of the powerhead to spit the water out into a bucket. So I'm physically removing the scum on a weekly basis, but it's back in a matter of hours every time. Surface agitation seems to not make any difference.

jYgImNL.png


phdzGLe.png
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
2,755
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Of the 14 hatches I got, half died. They didn't all die in a matter of days, it was over the course of two weeks.
Pretty standard I think, I assume that they are so weakened by their capture and transport that they just can't recover.

The others should be all right now, but you can only keep them happy long term if you have a supply of floating life food, <"vestigial winged fruit flies"> are usually the easiest option.
The only thing I can't figure out is the extremely prolific scum layer on the surface. I fashioned a DIY skimmer from a water bottle and a powerhead and I hook a hose up to the outlet of the powerhead to spit the water out into a bucket.
It might be <"saponins from the Magnolia leaves">

cheers Darrel
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
Hi all,Pretty standard I think, I assume that they are so weakened by their capture and transport that they just can't recover.

The others should be all right now, but you can only keep them happy long term if you have a supply of floating life food, <"vestigial winged fruit flies"> are usually the easiest option.

It might be <"saponins from the Magnolia leaves">

cheers Darrel

I assume all/most hatchets are wild caught, so I was expecting some die off pretty quickly. The remaining 7 are now really dark and mottled and do seem healthy.

I had Magnolia leaves in my previous blackwater setup and I was able to keep the scum to a minimum with very little surface agitation. This tank has 3 times the surface area and a lot more leaves though, along with some roots from an unknown tree type. All those factors are most likely contributing.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
I soak magnolia leaves in a bucket outside for at least a week before adding to fish tanks, to reduce that oily scum that they leach. Hellfishguy has a nice batch of Dicrossus maculatus young coming along - you might contact him about getting some of those. They're bigger and usually harder to find than filamentosus, and tank-bred might be less disease-prone than wild ones. I suspect there's other folks in the Charlotte to Greenville area who might also want some -- order together and share the shipping cost.
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
Finally...some dwarf cichlids have made their way into the tank. I got 8 wild caught Dicrossus filamentosus from The Wet Spot in Portland. All the fish arrived in good condition and after a 45 minute acclimation process, they took to the tank like it was home. The checkerboards began scouring every inch of the branches, even making their way up into the pennywort. I was worried about getting them to eat prepared foods, but they eagerly hunted down some tiny flakes I dusted into the water. I have frozen foods for them, and I'm preparing a small patch of dirt on the patio for cultivating earthworms.

I added five C. sterbai yesterday and did a very quick acclimation process - floated the bag for 20 minutes, mixed their bagged water with an equal amount of tank water in a tupperware container, let them hang out for 5 minutes and then into the tank. Last time I got sterbais, I did a loooong acclimation process and ended up losing 4 of the 8. They looked unhappy for a while, but today they are active, social and eating. Hopefully they all make it.

7XB7QFq.png


hu3tkt2.png


JcOHrlW.png


AUdtK4Z.png
 

Linus_Cello

Active Member
5 Year Member
Messages
276
Location
Washington DC
[QUOTE="doinkmobb, post: 97906, member: 13587\]

I added five C. sterbai yesterday and did a very quick acclimation process - floated the bag for 20 minutes, mixed their bagged water with an equal amount of tank water in a tupperware container, let them hang out for 5 minutes and then into the tank. Last time I got sterbais, I did a loooong acclimation process and ended up losing 4 of the 8. They looked unhappy for a while, but today they are active, social and eating. Hopefully they all make it.

[/QUOTE]
Supposedly sterbai emit more or stronger toxins when stressed compared to other corys. So with the longer acclimation they may have poisoned themselves. If you ever have to transport them again put them in water for 10 or 20 minutes (in bucket), to let them emit the toxins, and then put them in a bag of new water.
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
Supposedly sterbai emit more or stronger toxins when stressed compared to other corys. So with the longer acclimation they may have poisoned themselves. If you ever have to transport them again put them in water for 10 or 20 minutes (in bucket), to let them emit the toxins, and then put them in a bag of new water.

I can believe that. I had 8 stressed cories in a fairly small volume of water (which I was repeatedly refreshing with tank water of course) but I could see how toxins could build up if they were stressed that whole time. Damn, now I feel kinda bad about that. From now on, all cories I get will go through an abbreviated acclimation process.
 

doinkmobb

Member
Messages
60
Location
Greenville, SC USA
Two things I forgot to mention: the scum layer is totally gone. Maybe after so many water changes, I've finally depleted what was creating the film. I've been adding in more and more magnolia leaves lately, which could've been contributing to it, but I don't know.
The pH has finally dropped to what I think it should be - somewhere below 6.4. I say "somewhere below" because I don't entirely trust my pH meter (which says 6.36) and the API pH test is showing bright yellow, which is 6.0 or I guess between 6.0 and 6.4 really. Low 6s would be a ballpark figure. I tested my shrimp tank with my meter, it came out to be 6.67, the test kit showed 6.6 - that's seems accurate. The test kit showed my tap water at 8.4 or 8.8 and the meter said 7.9. Who knows.
 

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