ph issues

[Eric C.]

Ok, I have quite a few questions and I am new to keeping and attempting to breed apistos, so bare with me, and I apologize if I ask dumb questions.

I've been keeping fish for about 5 years now. Recently I decided it was time to take it to the next level so I obtained a few trio's of apistos, for my first attempt at breeding. In the past I had never tested for ph, gh, or kh. I only tested for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates. I did my regular water changes and my fish lived happy and healthy. When I decided to take a crack at breeding apistos I knew my old habits would have to change. So I've been monitoring hardness and ph in my tanks and trying to keep the levels stable. This has been frustrating, to say the least. My tap water is slighty hard with a ph of around 7.5. I have a trio of cacatuoides in a 10 gallon planted tank, since I've read that cacs can breed in slighty harder water I figured I could try and see if they would breed with my tap water unaltered. I recently tested my ph a day after a water change to find that the ph was at 8.4!! I immediately change 50% of the water to bring it down. I will probably do it again tonight to bring it lower. How could my ph have sky rocketed this high?
In my borelli tank, I am filtering the water with peat and I also have oak leaves in the tank. The ph stays around 7.2 for the first few days but it slowly rises after time. What am I doing wrong? How do I keep it stable. I really enjoy this hobby and I love apistos but its getting to the point of it becoming so frustrating I hate it! I may just lack the knowledge needed to be able to maintain and breed apistos. I'm not willing to give up, so I could really use some help. Sorry for the long winded post, but I've been needing to get this off my chest!:biggrin: Thanks for any help you are willing to provide.

prarameters for my tanks:

10 gal planted cac. tank

ph: 7.8
gh: 100 ppm
kh: 80 ppm

10 gal borelli tank

ph: 7.4
gh: 80 ppm
kh: 80 ppm

 

[aquaticclarity]

Start with a simple test. Take a clean container, new rinsed plastic like Rubbermaid or other, and fill it with the same water as you have been using in your tanks. Test the waters pH level. Let the water sit for 12+ hours and then test the pH. It wouldn't surprise me if the pH level rises. This isn't an uncommon occurrence. As the water leaves the tap and the dissolved gases are allowed to escape and oxygen is taken on the pH of the water will rise.

If the pH of the water in the container doesn't change wait another 12+ hours and test again. If the pH is still stable you need to look at your tank decorations. Some gravels and decorative rock can raise the pH value of water. (Most "new" sinking aquarium woods have the opposite effect) The best way to figure out if an object in the tank is effecting the pH is to run the same test you did for pH with the tap water but to place the decoration in question (one at a time) in the container. It may take some time to check a sample of everything that's in the tank but it's the best way to identify and eliminate possible problem causing items.

It's surprising that the pH is moving that much in a sort amount of time with your hardness levels what they are. With kH and gH levels at 80ppm or better the pH increase is almost certainly happening because of dissolved gas level changes in your tap water.

Jeff

 

[tjudy]

The problem is most likely the carbonate hardness at 80 ppm (approximately KH 8 on the German scale). That amount of buffer will prevent the pH from dropping below 7.0 easily. The only think I can suggest is to think about RO. Peat, oak leaves and other sources of acidity do not remove carbonate hardness, and it would require a lot of the acids to 'over power' the carbonates and drive the pH down. Cutting the water 50/50 would give you a KH of about 4 which is easier to deal with.

 

[Triadtropz]

if your serious about breeding the fish you will need an r/o unit...

 

[Eric C.]

Thank you for the replies. I have already tried a few of the things suggested. I set out some tap water and allowed it to de-gas overnight. The ph did not change. When I found the ph levels of 8.4 I immediately removed the rocks that were in the tank and replaced them with flower pots. I will keep an eye on the levels and do water changes as needed.

A few more questions. What testing kits have you guys found to be the most accurate? Ted, I am interested in the testing device that I saw on your site but I was unable to find out how to go about ordering it. Also how much does a decent RO unit go for? I may just have to break down and get one. My wife won't be too happy about it but if thats my only option then I will get one. I just love apistos and I know I will feel a great sense of accomplishment if I can get them to breed. Thanks again for the help.

 

[tjudy]

I made a mistake. The conversion from ppm KH to dKH is 18:1, so a measurement of 80ppm Kh would be approximately 4.5 dKH. That is still the problem, but at least with that level using peat or chemicals may be more effective. RO is still the easiest way to go though.

 

[ed seeley]

I have to agree with Jeff's idea for your climbing pH. I think you may some decor that's hardening your water.

When I started seriously getting into dwarfs I had real problems with hard water. Partly because liquid concrete came out of the taps, but even when I used rain water the pH climbed. In the end it was a piece of fake log cave that was responsible, but it took an awful long time to work that out! Also had problems with supposedly neutral gravel too!

The others are dead right about an RO unit too. I have one now and would not be without one. It gives you complete control over what you do with your water.