• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

New Cycling Product

Neil

New Member
Agreed! But I think that Species Maintenance programs and captive rearing efforts serve a similarly important purpose to keeping fish that no longer have a habitat. It should serve as an aid to prevent, at least some of, the reasons that a few of these species are becoming endangered in the first place. There is not much we can directly do about certain habitats being destroyed, but we can relieve some of the pressure on certain species, by breeding them. If wild-caught fish were only used to help the captive gene pool, instead of providing the majority of aquarium residents for hobbyists, some species would not be so heavily collected and would only have to worry about bulldozers.
But I would say that we have gotten quite a bit off the subject here. Interesting topic though.
 

tjudy

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
:)

Neil makes THE point. If we breed rare fish in captivity, and make those fish available to the hobby, then fewer fish need to be collected from the wild.

Unfortunately most of the species that we keep are not really attractive subjects to the fish farms. Unless the really big producers decide that a fish is marketable for a long period of time, they will not expend the investment to promote the market. Look how long it took for Florida to figure out there were more rainbows than just the bread and butter 'Australian rainbow'.

From an industry standpoint, most fish are cheaper to import than they are to cultivate. Cardinal tetras can be bred in captivity, and are by many hobbyists, but very few are produced commercially. When the cost of wild cardinals becomes too high for the general hobbyist to pay, then the producers will find a way to bring the price down.

When I owned a fish business in the late 1980's, I was very concientious about offering captive bred anemone fish, and even bred a few (talk about labor intensive 8O ). Back then, it was cheaper for me to buy a 2 inch wild caught tomato clown from a wholesaler than it was to buy a 1 inch tank-raised tomato clown. When the two fish were placed in tanks side by side, the wild fish sold more frequently than the tank-raised 10:1.

This topic has run the gambit from maintaining genetic integrity and species maintenance programs to why we are fish hobbyists. I contend that most of us hobbyists prefer to get wild fish than tank raised, if we can; and that will not change until wild fish are either unavailable or just to expensive. That is why when I do have fry or juvinile fish for sale, I try to sell them at very low prices. A lot lower than the retail market value. My hope is that someone contemplating a dwarf cichlid will want ten of my tank raised fish for the price of one wild fish.
 

aspen

Active Member
5 Year Member
>>'From an industry standpoint, most fish are cheaper to import than they are to cultivate.'

what about the effects on the local population? (the people i mean.)

these people may have only 1 means of getting hard currency, say catching and selling f/i cardinal tetras. can we assume that this person or group of people would hunt their only source of income to extinction, or care for these fish like they were their 'last dollar'. not all human endeavors end in tradgedy or complete extinction.

ime with hunters, most are far more intelligent about the environment, animal stocks and caring for this resource than most of us, yet they get a bad rap from the rest of society, by being labelled as killers. sure there are yahoos everywhere, but who would know better than the people who have the most interest in maintaining decent numbers of the stocks about maintaining these resources. that is what hunting licenses are all about, right?

the most incorrect habitat managements i can think of, usually involve the search for another resource, say lumber of minerals, or adding a non-indigenous species into a habitat to correct a problem, and having strongly adverse consequences. say like the nile perch, or the rabbit or the cane toad in australia.

rick
 

tjudy

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
I agree with Aspen that there are people who depend upon the collection of tropical fish for their living. I do not believe that the practice supports the majority of the people in the collection areas though. If it did, why would there be the slash and burn deforestation that there is? I imagine that the concept of conservation is too long term for many to worry about. If the fish collector found the LAST zebra pleco, he would still collect it. The dollar today means more to him than the hope of a dollar tomorrow.

I am going to move this discussion to a new topic. I keep getting confused :? .

This thread started as a discussion about cycling tanks? How did it get here? I'm sure I had something to do with it... :roll:
 

Randall

Active Member
5 Year Member
farm41 said:
How can living bacteria be stored in a bottle?

I've never tried any of the bottled concoctions that claim to cycle a tank, is this just one more marketing gimmick?

Usually if it sounds too good to be true, it is too good to be true.
To the Forum:

Bio Spira, the new cycling product discussed at the beginning of this thread, is now available. My LFR received it on Monday, Nov. 4. The product is packaged in individual foil envelopes and must be kept refrigerated. After I've tried it out, I will report back to the Forum.

Thank you.

Randall Kohn
 

shirley

New Member
5 Year Member
Marineland Bio-Spira product

As a fairly new fishkeeper (1 year), I do not have numerous tanks with which to seed a new tank setup. In December, I set up a new 55 gallon tank. using the Marineland Bio-Spira. It is available in a foil packet, and must be refrigerated. For my 55 gallon, the cost was $19.99. Six weeks later, I can say that this product is everything they claim it to be. The water is crystal clear, the fish are all healthy, and I suffered no fish losses. The tank is currently holding 6 juvenile green severums, 6 juvenile gold severums, a pair of pink kissing gouramis, and various loaches (clown, zebra, and yoyo). Not only am I impressed, the LFS owner said that they now use this product exclusively in all their store tanks upon setup. Does anyone else have any experiences with this?
 

farm41

New Member
5 Year Member
Hi shirley,

That is the only good thing I have heard about this product. Did you load that new tank with all those fish from day one?

What are your plans for all the fish you have in there?
 

shirley

New Member
5 Year Member
bio-spira

When I set up my 55 gallon tank, I waited 24 hours for the temperature to stabilize, etc., then put in the full fish load and the bio-spira the next day. As far as all those juvenile severums, I am growing them out in hopes of getting a pair of green and a pair of golds. The rest will be transfered to a 75 gallon tank until I either sell them back to my LFS (which is great for the most part), or find homes for them. This gives me an excuse to set up another, bigger, tank! Fishkeeping certainly is addictive! I have a 29 gallon community tank, the 55 gallon growout severum tank, and have the 75 gallon in the planning stages. Shirley
 

Randall

Active Member
5 Year Member
Bio-Spira

To the Forum,

I've just had occassion to use Marineland Labs' Bio-Spira on a new 20-gallon tank setup, and it works! The principal ingredients, as noted on the packaging, are: "Purified water, patented and patent pending pure strains of Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira and Nitrospira."

Marineland Labs' customer service website address is www.marinelandlabs.com.

Thank you.

Randall Kohn
 

farm41

New Member
5 Year Member
OK, besides saying it works, how about giving us some ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings at 1,2,3,4, and 5 week intervals, along with the fishload?

I am skeptical, but I would sure like to see a shortcut.
 

Randall

Active Member
5 Year Member
farm41 said:
OK, besides saying it works, how about giving us some ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings at 1,2,3,4, and 5 week intervals, along with the fishload?

I am skeptical, but I would sure like to see a shortcut.
Dear Matt,

Forgive me, but given appropriate "fishload" for a subject sized tank, isn't cycling over and done with after four weeks? Why then test beyond that term?

From my experiance, which is commensurate with that of many others, why test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for a month if there is no indication from the fish to do so?

I don't understand why you don't simply buy the product and try it out for yourself, rather than ask someone else to test its efficacy over a five-week term.

Randall Kohn
 

farm41

New Member
5 Year Member
Nitrogen Cycling

OK, 4 weeks then.




Randall said:
Gentlemen:

we can count the days until ammonia and nitrate levels come up at zero and compare our notes at the end. I figure a four-week term ought to do it.

Randall Kohn

You reported the results, I am just asking specific info. Not that I don't believe you, I just would like to know more.
 

shirley

New Member
5 Year Member
bio-spira

As I posted previously, I have used the bio-spira with wonderful results. I believe the best thing for everyone to do is to visit the Marineland website, where you will find a research article posted by the developer of the bio-spira product. I'm a registered nurse, not a bio-chemist, but I do enjoy reading research, whatever the topic. By the way, my tank has been up and running 7 weeks and counting, and I'm more than pleased. Shirley
 

farm41

New Member
5 Year Member
Been there, done that.

Sorry, but usually when it sounds to good to be true, it is too good to be true. So I'd like just a little more info than someone saying it works.

I wonder how many companies you have heard of making claims of fantastic results, then a surge of popularity, and finally the product fades into the back pages of magazines.

I am not saying that's the case this time, maybe it's as wonderful as marineland claims. I'd just like to see some test results by the hobbyist that are using it.

Whats wrong with me asking for a few of the most common tests results that should be done be any fish keeper that really cares about their fish when starting a new tank?
 

ginnie5

New Member
5 Year Member
What if I told you that someone else has already done a test

like this? I saw it while surfing some other sites. They tested it for several weeks and it worked. Here's a link (hope its ok to post it!)
http://www.fishgeeks.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7372
I did find it here but the only size they had was for a 90g tank (I have a 38) and it was 22.99. Needless to say I didn't buy it, even though the guy that works there said "you can't use too much" . I'm not sure about that point. Seems like if you add more bacteria than you need some will die. Hope this helps!
 

farm41

New Member
5 Year Member
yep, like that.


On page 5, there is a post by Phroge. That's the result's I'd like to see too.
 

ginnie5

New Member
5 Year Member
trying bio spira now...

tank has been up and running with 7 zebra danios for 9 days today. Ammonia is 0 but nitrites are off my scale. I added the small packet 1 oz for 30g last night. From what I've been reading it takes 24 hours for it to start working in a tank that is already cycling. I'll post my test results tomorrow and see if it really works.
 

Randall

Active Member
5 Year Member
Bio-Spira

To the Forum,

It has been five weeks now since I used Bio-Spira on a heavily stocked, virgin 20-gallon tank set up. There is still no trace of ammonia nor nitrite.

This product does indeed seem to work.

Thank you.

Randall Kohn
 
Top