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Need some feedback and advice on half submerged tank

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
512
I'm still planning my low ph tank. I think the physical glass will be 20 inches high but i will likely fill it somewhere between 12 and 16 inches. I'm really not sure what a good height will be (see stocking); with providing enough water for the fishes but otherwise keeping it as shallow as possible to have hardscape break the water surface. The idea is the matten filter will provide water flow over the emersed hardscape and plants.
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The tank dimension would be 48x48x20 (inches l,w,h) (this can be adjusted prior to order).
The stocking hope (this is in flux):
12 emerald eye rasbora, 4 or 6 cherry chocolate gourami (Sphaerichthys selatanensis) (these might be a problem due to pushing temp to 80f); 4 to 6 Dicrossus filamentosus; and 2 apistogramma species - my thought was a pair of elizabeth and a pair of apistogramma cf personata (mostly monog).
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The tank will have corner matten filter and the jetstream out put will go to a spray bar forming a waterfall over the exposed hardscape.
The scaping plan is the back foot to 18 inch will have arching driftwood of various height with some slate beneath to form numerous caves and arch out of the water (not sure if this will work well given the height of the water and will probalby need to stack a few large pieces on top of each other). There will be anubia and crypts above the water line and i'll probably try some Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus in the very back and allow it to grow above the water line as well as a couple of interesting sword plants (not sure which - maybe marble queen and one of the purple varieties).
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There are a few concerns - one being just too many fishes and who to eliminate - my thought was the gouramis are passive dither near the top as well as the emerald rasbora. I'm not too sure about the dicrossus but i suspect they would compete with the apisto. Also I could not find good temp info on cf personata. The other is just how much water is needed in the tank (height - my thought is 14 to 16 inches to allow good sep. between the gourami and apisto). I think the 48x48 is enough space for two not overly aggressive species of apisto but the dicrossus might be pushing things.
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Any feedback ?
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MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,211
Location
Germany
12 emerald eye rasbora, 4 or 6 cherry chocolate gourami (Sphaerichthys selatanensis) (these might be a problem due to pushing temp to 80f); 4 to 6 Dicrossus filamentosus; and 2 apistogramma species - my thought was a pair of elizabeth and a pair of apistogramma cf personata (mostly monog).
There are a few concerns - one being just too many fishes and who to eliminate - my thought was the gouramis are passive dither near the top as well as the emerald rasbora. I'm not too sure about the dicrossus but i suspect they would compete with the apisto. Also I could not find good temp info on cf personata. The other is just how much water is needed in the tank (height - my thought is 14 to 16 inches to allow good sep. between the gourami and apisto). I think the 48x48 is enough space for two not overly aggressive species of apisto but the dicrossus might be pushing things.

I'll mostly address stocking for now:
Frist thing of note: Dicrossus can be combined effortlessly with one species of Apistogramma. But two species of Apistogramma is pushing it over the edge. My presumption is, the Apistos will probably start to chase away the Dicrossus, which are rather weak in holding their ground against other species.

Additionally I find more and more that Dicrossus prefer open areas. In my tank they have a lot of hiding spaces behind driftwood and elsewhere. The whole part covered by emersed plants and driftwood is ignored. Right now it turns out I have probably 5 males out of 5 juveniles (great quota, eh? 4 males are confirmed, I doubt the last one will be a female... but topic for another thread.). And although the lower ranking ones could just take over about half the tank for themselves, no, all of them prefer to stay in the leaf litter and open sand regions of the tank, accepting being chased. So while hiding places in the back will of course be necessary, you should take this into acount for the scape.

Another concern here: Sphaerichthys are not as surface oriented as many other gourami and have a lifestyle I would describe as between smaller gourami (Colisa lalia, Trichogaster chuna) and licorice gourami (Parosphromenus), which are quite similar to dwarf cichlids in their lifestyle. Just not as territorial. So in worst case you have 4 species competing for the same part of the tank (lower third) while also being rivaling within their own species.
 

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
512
I should have said the front corner approx 24x24 will be completely open (for dicrossus); and as you move right of 24 (remember the width is 48) you will find some cover of smaller drift wood, java fern and rock.
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Do you think it would work to simply make a hard choice between the elizabeth and personata - my hope had been with 48 inches in the back they would happily find two opposite sides but dropping one might have to be the thing - or are further changes required in stocking?
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,211
Location
Germany
Do you think it would work to simply make a hard choice between the elizabeth and personata - my hope had been with 48 inches in the back they would happily find two opposite sides but dropping one might have to be the thing - or are further changes required in stocking?
I can only tell you, I would do 1 species of Apistogramma in that case. Go for A. elisabethae, they are at least known to work with Dicrossus.
 

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
512
Then there is a question of tank height and what is needed to support the fish layer but still keep the water reasonably low.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,211
Location
Germany
Then there is a question of tank height and what is needed to support the fish layer but still keep the water reasonably low.
Going from my experiences of Apistos and Dicrossus in Paludaria: 30cm waterline is the minimum if you keep dithers with them. My pencils were usually chased to the upper 5cm in a tank with 45cm height and waterline at 35cm, both by single Apistogramma and Dicrossus males.
The 40cm (height) tank I have now has the waterline at about 30cm, but also no chasing of the pencils (yet).
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
347
Location
San Francisco
Having not kept this combination, I would be concerned about the Sphaericthys being intimidated by the breeding apistos and becoming ill from stress. I did read the other thread where someone who has kept them said it was OK, but I tend to be conservative about these things.
 

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
512
Having not kept this combination, I would be concerned about the Sphaericthys being intimidated by the breeding apistos and becoming ill from stress. I did read the other thread where someone who has kept them said it was OK, but I tend to be conservative about these things.
Well I think my question is the size adequate to keep them far enough apart that there won't be so much stress? Remember this tank is longer and wider than a 20 long - so it is like 4 20 longs side by side plus some so there is some distance.
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
347
Location
San Francisco
I'm not sure. If the chocolates learn quickly not to go near the breeding apistos, maybe? Is it stressful to learn that lesson? Will the apistos breed in different areas of the tank (as mine have)? Will they expand their territory? Can something bad happen in the initial altercation? I can't really answer, so I personally wouldn't try it. It could work, though.
 

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
512
Well - i can always move the apisto to a 20 long i'll be keeping next to this tank if it becomes an issue; though I suspect catching them will be very very difficult.
 

Hammers_Apistos

New Member
Messages
2
I'm still planning my low ph tank. I think the physical glass will be 20 inches high but i will likely fill it somewhere between 12 and 16 inches. I'm really not sure what a good height will be (see stocking); with providing enough water for the fishes but otherwise keeping it as shallow as possible to have hardscape break the water surface. The idea is the matten filter will provide water flow over the emersed hardscape and plants.
-
The tank dimension would be 48x48x20 (inches l,w,h) (this can be adjusted prior to order).
The stocking hope (this is in flux):
12 emerald eye rasbora, 4 or 6 cherry chocolate gourami (Sphaerichthys selatanensis) (these might be a problem due to pushing temp to 80f); 4 to 6 Dicrossus filamentosus; and 2 apistogramma species - my thought was a pair of elizabeth and a pair of apistogramma cf personata (mostly monog).
-
The tank will have corner matten filter and the jetstream out put will go to a spray bar forming a waterfall over the exposed hardscape.
The scaping plan is the back foot to 18 inch will have arching driftwood of various height with some slate beneath to form numerous caves and arch out of the water (not sure if this will work well given the height of the water and will probalby need to stack a few large pieces on top of each other). There will be anubia and crypts above the water line and i'll probably try some Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus in the very back and allow it to grow above the water line as well as a couple of interesting sword plants (not sure which - maybe marble queen and one of the purple varieties).
-
There are a few concerns - one being just too many fishes and who to eliminate - my thought was the gouramis are passive dither near the top as well as the emerald rasbora. I'm not too sure about the dicrossus but i suspect they would compete with the apisto. Also I could not find good temp info on cf personata. The other is just how much water is needed in the tank (height - my thought is 14 to 16 inches to allow good sep. between the gourami and apisto). I think the 48x48 is enough space for two not overly aggressive species of apisto but the dicrossus might be pushing things.
-
Any feedback ?
-
I would say to just do the apisto or the Dicrossus filamentosus but its up to u then again.
 

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