Hey, most of you that have read my other thread know that I have two pairs of Apistogramma Cacatuoides, Well a male and two females as the dominant male has fallen ill I think. I was out today at my very cheap lfs and noticed some apistogramma Viejita so I bought 3, the owner said they're too young to sex but from my experience with Apistogramma so far, all 3 look like males with long fins and blue heads (one is blue all over) and I know blue is an early colouration of an over colour. The other two are pale bodies with a solid black stripe. They are in the tank with the cacatuoides atm as I've been trying to set up a breeding program to supply my local lfs's with decent quality fish rather than the horrible stuff that all these fish farm keepers are producers. I had to buy them, fish this nice around here will be gone in a day. I'm getting a basic tub to put the Viejita's in until I can get a nice big tank. Even though the tank is pretty peaceful even with these mixed pairs and a siamese fighting fish nosing around now and again. I've trimmed plants and replanted so hopefully they'll grow enough in a couple of weeks for me to trim again and replant, I've bought 3 very small pots today and I've got enough bog wood to fill up my tank. The only problem is, I don't want 3 males in a tank as they are aggressive enough to females over their territory and breeding displays. I need suggestions and advice on the best way of breeding these. I'll add pictures to this thread after I've rearranged my tank in a bit. This is kind of urgent too as I don't want stressed fish. Thanks.
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Need a bit of help
- Thread starter Kyle
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A. viejita are too hard to breed. Assuming you can find some females :wink:. Blue is not a color I associate with that species, however, so better ID gurus will need to chime in. A. viejita is more aggressive that A. cactuoides, so the sooner you can remove the A. viejita to a new tank the better for the A. cacatuoides to spawn.
You mentioned wanting to produce higher quality fish for your local stores which only carry poor stock. Are you starting with fish from the stores? If their livestock is not of good quality you should look elsewhere for fish.
Do not be afraid to have fish shipped to you. The specialty sellers have healthy fish that will usually cost less than what the local stores will sell them for, even after adding the cost of shipping. If the cost of shipping fish does turn out to be more expensive, you should think of it as paying for what you get. A higher price for better fish. Quality stock will breed sooner, have larger spawns and faster growing fry than poor stock, so you will see a faster return on the investment.
You mentioned wanting to produce higher quality fish for your local stores which only carry poor stock. Are you starting with fish from the stores? If their livestock is not of good quality you should look elsewhere for fish.
Do not be afraid to have fish shipped to you. The specialty sellers have healthy fish that will usually cost less than what the local stores will sell them for, even after adding the cost of shipping. If the cost of shipping fish does turn out to be more expensive, you should think of it as paying for what you get. A higher price for better fish. Quality stock will breed sooner, have larger spawns and faster growing fry than poor stock, so you will see a faster return on the investment.
This is my problem, atm I would love wild stock apistogramma in my tank but I'm a student with one tank and a lot of dreams. Someone is buying me a 3.5 foot tank to help me get started and I'm going to be buying the stock. The cacatuoides are £25 a pair down here and quite rare. I'm unsure what apistogramma I bought today, I'm in the middle of rearranging my tank atm just to try and give every fish a bit of territory. The fish stores down here get some really nice fish at certain parts of the year but then they disappear for months and one store is already interested in what I want to do and have already started asking if I have stock available. I'm quite new to cichlids, although I have successfully bred 2 pairs of mikrogeophagus ramirezi and Pelvicachromus pulcher (and taeneatus) even though they are relatively easy. I'm pretty certain that my cacatuoides would have spawned a week back but I did a water change and the pH rose and they seemed to have lost interest. I've been breeding different fish for 2 years and am really interested in starting my own site, stock lists and pure quality fish. The fish I bought today might be the sp. Steel blue hybrid, not too sure yet though.
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There is a significant typo in my earlier response. It should start off as 'NOT too hard to breed'... sorry.
Your images do not look like A. viejita to me. They look like the 'steel blue' that is produced in Asia.
Your images do not look like A. viejita to me. They look like the 'steel blue' that is produced in Asia.
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Hi all,
3 male "Steel-blue/Blue-steel" for me too. My first 2 Apisto's were 2 male Steel-blue bought as "a pair of A. borellii", and I expect quite a few other members will have had the same experience. Have a search through the threads on this forum, you will find plenty of info.
Also the second one looks a bit thin & stressed, I'd try and find him an alternative tank (take him back?), and feed him up as the males are quite aggressive to one another (you may find you can only keep one male "Blue-steel" in the tank successfully).
Have a look through ApistoBobs "steel-blue" page <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_sp_Steel_blue.php> Bob is a member here, and there is a lot of good information on his site. There is a lso a sexing guide, female "Steel-blue" were very rare in the trade, but the last few I've seen for sale in the UK there have been males and females.
cheers Darrel
3 male "Steel-blue/Blue-steel" for me too. My first 2 Apisto's were 2 male Steel-blue bought as "a pair of A. borellii", and I expect quite a few other members will have had the same experience. Have a search through the threads on this forum, you will find plenty of info.
Also the second one looks a bit thin & stressed, I'd try and find him an alternative tank (take him back?), and feed him up as the males are quite aggressive to one another (you may find you can only keep one male "Blue-steel" in the tank successfully).
Have a look through ApistoBobs "steel-blue" page <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_sp_Steel_blue.php> Bob is a member here, and there is a lot of good information on his site. There is a lso a sexing guide, female "Steel-blue" were very rare in the trade, but the last few I've seen for sale in the UK there have been males and females.
cheers Darrel
Thanks for the reply, I was told at my lfs that they were mix sex but they were too young to sex. Would anyone have females on here? They all ate a lot yesterday and I haven't seen any aggression yet but I noticed my smallest female cacatuoides was chasing them all off but there's nothing this morning.
I have a very interesting update today. It seems a pair of the "Steel-Blue" have taken a lot to each other, the biggest one is showing intense blues all over his body with the reds and purples mixed in and the second biggest is showing female characteristics in breeding, the black diagonal line under the eye and the 3 quarter intense black strip from the start of the tail to the start of the dorsol fin and first 2 spines of dorsal are now black. They've been displaying nicely together so hopefully I'm going to have a successful spawn. Fingers crossed anyway 
Here's some pictures.
My conclusion is:
Male
Female (intense black colouration)
And here you can really see the difference in body features and fins along with patterns.
Male on the left and female or the right.
Here's some pictures. My conclusion is:
Male
Female (intense black colouration)
And here you can really see the difference in body features and fins along with patterns.
Male on the left and female or the right.
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Hi Kyle,
Congrats. they look in much better condition already.
Keep an eye on them, the female (if she is) will turn quite yellow, and you should be able to see a thickish black line on the ventral fins. My two males fought all the time and I managed to introduce camallanus nematodes with the female when I got one, so I never saw them interact properly as male/female.
I've seen quite a few females since, and they do look different, but it is quite a subtle difference when they are not in breeding colour. Usually it's sleeper male that become less female like, so your carefully selected "pair" becomes 2 obvious males.
I must admit looking at them, based on both their markings and fin shape (elongated pointy dorsal, rather than rounded) I still think they are probably all males. Steve C may be in a better position to judge as his pair spawned (in the video on Bob's site).
cheers Darrel
Congrats. they look in much better condition already.
Keep an eye on them, the female (if she is) will turn quite yellow, and you should be able to see a thickish black line on the ventral fins. My two males fought all the time and I managed to introduce camallanus nematodes with the female when I got one, so I never saw them interact properly as male/female.
I've seen quite a few females since, and they do look different, but it is quite a subtle difference when they are not in breeding colour. Usually it's sleeper male that become less female like, so your carefully selected "pair" becomes 2 obvious males.
I must admit looking at them, based on both their markings and fin shape (elongated pointy dorsal, rather than rounded) I still think they are probably all males. Steve C may be in a better position to judge as his pair spawned (in the video on Bob's site).
cheers Darrel
I've bought two more today. I noticed a few in the lfs seemed a lot more gold than the others but there were a lot of dead and sick ones. Does anyone know where this species actually came from? There's no info on the web about these and most sites say that they are infertile, rare and male to female ratio is 99.9% males.
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The original Steel-blues were exported by Southeast Asian breeders. According to Römer, the European strain was produced from Asian males and A. caetei females.
Look in the sexing part in the link in this thread, the female labeled "Small fierce fish" looks exactly like what I think is female in my fish and the male has a more rounded body. Maybe mine are too young to sex, they're only about an inch big at the most and they're colours will probably develop more.
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