macmasteri or viejita

[apisto-nut]

sold to me as viejita ?
first fish.

macmasteri ? came in a mixed box of apisto's
second fish.
photo 1

photo 2

 

[cacatuoides]

Looks like macmasteri to me

 

[Mike Wise]

I agree. A. macmasteri.

 

[langosh]

apisto. ID

I´ll use this thread, if you don´t mind :wink:

I bought the fish as Apistogramma macmasteri Red mask, but unfortunately I didn´t find much information about the variety. However I tend more and more to the conclusion that my fish is a cross of viejita and macmasteri. I know you discuss this issue a lot here, so I´d appreciate your opinions very much.

Thanx
Roman

 

[mummymonkey]

Can't see the pictures and the links don't work.

 

[apisto-nut]

mike you think both fish are a.macmasteri?

 

[langosh]

Sorry, problems with posting pictures. Now it should be OK.

Roman

 

[cacatuoides]

The 1st picture looks more like a viejita, 2nd picture looks like a macmasteri...

Are they the same fish?

 

[Apistt_ed]

Based on the height of the fish and extension of the dorsal fin on both fish, they would be A. macmasteri. The serration of the dorsal fin is a dead give-a-way of macmasteri versa viejita. The first fish, doesn't show much of the characteristics of macmasteri, or at least the red-shoulder, but it is a relatively bulky/stocky fish, which is also a way of distinguishing the two species. The red-shoulders is very prominant in the second fish, which would make it most definitely A. macmasteri, or a cross between different closely related species. This fish should be considered an aquarium strain of macmasteri. As for A. viejita, there is controversy about the fish, because I believe that the fish has not been in the hands of many aquarists. The real viejita would be a more slender fish compared to macmasteri and always have a round caudal fin. It's dorsal is less pronounced with extensions if any and show maybe hints of red on the caudal fin but never the striking colors such as most fish sold as viejita II. As a general rule, I've come to accept for myself, chances are, we'll never see the real A. viejita in the trade, but instead very colorful strains of fertile hybrids of a couple of macmasteri-group fish which are more eye-catching and sold as viejita. john

 

[langosh]

Thank you for your responses. Yes they are the same fish - the 1st pic is a little bit PC modified- just to make colours more pop up - it was wrong idea I admit, but I didn´t want to confuse you I swear .

Some more photos

The other male - also sold to me as Ap. macmasteri red mask

The female

Roman

 

[cacatuoides]

Wow!! Very very nice female you've got there!!! I like the colors on the fins :biggrin:

 

[Mike Wise]

This is a domestic fish, probably with bloodlines from macs, viejita, & sp. Red-flecked/Rotflecken. I have only seen the true A. viejita once. It is unmistakable once you see is beside a true A. macmasteri.

 

[Watermillman]

Based on the height of the fish and extension of the dorsal fin on both fish, they would be A. macmasteri. The serration of the dorsal fin is a dead give-a-way of macmasteri versa viejita. The first fish, doesn't show much of the characteristics of macmasteri, or at least the red-shoulder, but it is a relatively bulky/stocky fish, which is also a way of distinguishing the two species. The red-shoulders is very prominant in the second fish, which would make it most definitely A. macmasteri, or a cross between different closely related species. This fish should be considered an aquarium strain of macmasteri. As for A. viejita, there is controversy about the fish, because I believe that the fish has not been in the hands of many aquarists. The real viejita would be a more slender fish compared to macmasteri and always have a round caudal fin. It's dorsal is less pronounced with extensions if any and show maybe hints of red on the caudal fin but never the striking colors such as most fish sold as viejita II. As a general rule, I've come to accept for myself, chances are, we'll never see the real A. viejita in the trade, but instead very colorful strains of fertile hybrids of a couple of macmasteri-group fish which are more eye-catching and sold as viejita. john

Sure, it´s truth. By us in Czech republic spawned these fishes too much breeders, who don´t interesting for any systematic. They made it (I think) - both species together and don´t looking on detail between fins and colours.
In present age have originaly macmasteri only few breeders by us. I was search too much years, where is truth, ´till I´m found perfect macmasteri and can level out them then in tanks near themselves.

Jan

 

[Mike Wise]

Jan,

It is not only the Czech breeders. The same occurred in the US, Asia & other European countries. Now 'pure' A. viejita is very rare in the hobby. Wild A. macmasteri seem to be more common.

 

[langosh]

And what about this one. It looks like Ap. viejita...

Roman

 

[Mike Wise]

It is hard to say from this 1 photo. Every true A. viejita seen so far has had a red border on the dorsal fin and a round tail without caudal extensions.