Macmasteri ID

[Eddiekay1010]

Hi. I'm sorry for asking a very common question, I've looked at all the photos in my books and read the descriptions and I'm not confident 100% with my ID. They are wild and came directly from a Colombian exporter and were listed as viejita but I knew that meant nothing and that they would be almost certainly be macmasteri. From Romer's description in his book, I focused on the female, and my fish doesn't fit his description of a viejita. To help me learn, would someone be able to point out the main reasons from the pics that point to macmasteri. Sorry for the question again, I know its the most tired question on this forum.

 

[Frank Hättich]

First of all, all the pictures of A. viejita in Römer's CA1 actually show A. macmasteri. Distinguishing females of both species can be very difficult if not impossible. So better focus on males. Your male shows a narrow oval caudal spot, lacks a red seam at the upper edge of the dorsal fin, has narrow abdominal streaks, a lateral band that is separated into segments and shows red markings on the head and anterior part of the upper body. Therefore it's for sure not A. viejita. Moreover I'm quite sure that it's in fact A. macmasteri (rather than some other macmasteri-subcomplex species).

 

[Eddiekay1010]

First of all, all the pictures of A. viejita in Römer's CA1 actually show A. macmasteri. Distinguishing females of both species can be very difficult if not impossible. So better focus on males. Your male shows a narrow oval caudal spot, lacks a red seam at the upper edge of the dorsal fin, has narrow abdominal streaks, a lateral band that is separated into segments and shows red markings on the head and anterior part of the upper body. Therefore it's for sure not A. viejita. Moreover I'm quite sure that it's in fact A. macmasteri (rather than some other macmasteri-subcomplex species).

Thank you so much. Wow, here I'm studying the photos so closely in the book and feeling really discouraged because I really don't see the differences. Could recommend any books, English or German that have good examples of viejita, I think I have
most of them at home I can reference. Thanks again Frank!

 

[Frank Hättich]

Could recommend any books, English or German that have good examples of viejita, I think I have most of them at home I can reference. Thanks again Frank!

The book of Staeck & Linke "Amerikanische Cichliden I. Kleine Buntbarsche" show (true) A. viejita under the name "A. viejita type 1". The book by Koslowski "Die Buntbarsche Amerikas Band 2: Zwergcichliden – Apistogramma & Co" and the DATZ book "Sonderheft 2005 – Südamerikanische Zwergcichliden" also show A. viejita. Of course on Tom's site you find pictures too: https://www.tomc.no/fish.aspx?fishIndexID=2327&gruppeID=1

 

[Frank Hättich]

Here are pictures of the viejita I kept :some years ago:

 

[Eddiekay1010]

The book of Staeck & Linke "Amerikanische Cichliden I. Kleine Buntbarsche" show (true) A. viejita under the name "A. viejita type 1". The book by Koslowski "Die Buntbarsche Amerikas Band 2: Zwergcichliden – Apistogramma & Co" and the DATZ book "Sonderheft 2005 – Südamerikanische Zwergcichliden" also show A. viejita. Of course on Tom's site you find pictures too: https://www.tomc.no/fish.aspx?fishIndexID=2327&gruppeID=1

Thank you, I have an of those, I'll be practicing tonight

 

[Eddiekay1010]

Here are pictures of the viejita I kept :some years ago:

View attachment 16956
View attachment 16957

Amazing photos, I really see that zig zag pattern in the the lateral band, thats a key right?

 

[Frank Hättich]

Here's a table with the differences.

 

[Eddiekay1010]

Here's a table with the differences.

Thank you, I was searching for this, I printed out a year or two ago and couldn't find it, this is great

 

[Eddiekay1010]

Thank you, I have an of those, I'll be practicing tonight

In the Linke and Staeck book, are type 2 and 3 not viejita?

 

[Frank Hättich]

In the Linke and Staeck book, are type 2 and 3 not viejita?

Yes, they are not viejita. Type 2 is known as A. sp. Rotflecken and type 3 as A. sp. Schwarzkehl. Whether the latter two are two different species or merely different forms of the same species isn't known for sure, but I believe they are different species.

 

[Eddiekay1010]

Yes, they are not viejita. Type 2 is known as A. sp. Rotflecken and type 3 as A. sp. Schwarzkehl. Whether the latter two are two different species or merely different forms of the same species isn't known for sure, but I believe they are different species.