Is this cacatuoides juvenile male or female?

[davidjp1982]

I kept two young cacatuoides from my last spawn assuming they were females but now I am not so sure - they also regularly flare and shake tails at another (definate) female juvenile in the tank from a seperate spawn - is it common for juvenile females to show these signs to other females or do you think they are in fact males? Interestingly the father of the 2 juveniles in question pays them no attention but will flare and shake tails at the definate female from the other spawn..fascinating if that shows a desire to "widen the gene pool"! I've attached a pic of one of the fish I am trying to sex below - looking at its "yellowist" but changes often from bright to dark

 

[MonteSS]

no pic

 

[davidjp1982]

Can't seem to upload pics on the forum here's a link http://s11.postimg.org/81wqycaz6/IMG_20140513_00015.jpg

 

[caraway]

I have A. cacatuoides triple reds. This looks lke a female to me. The females I have have uite a bit of color to them.

 

[davidjp1982]

2 months on and I'm still not sure! Do females have such pronounced dorsal rays like the males? My other female juvenile has a "longer and lower" dorsal fin with no pronounced rays such as I would call typical - this one looks male to me other than the yellow colouring?! I just fed live daphnia which always brings out the yellow in it. The adult male is the father- sorry for pic quality - I have a ghetto mobile.

 

[ErtyJr]

I haven't been dealing with apistos very long but I have only owned cacatuoides and have successfully identified young males / females 100% of the time thus far. Keep in mind although I have yet to misidentify I haven't done it very much but here is my opinion...

It looks like two males. Let me explain.

First off I never use the color in fins or body at all (excluding the pelvic fin) . It is rarely accurate. There are two things i look at.

1) pelvic fin. In females there tends to be much more black. The males have very little to no black in their pelvic fins and the females may also have little to none, but tend to have more.
2) dorsal fin. The first 3 rays of the dorsal fin in males tend to grow long and the females they tend to be of equal size or sometimes smaller. But again, this method also can be wrong, it's merely a tendency not a fact.

Using those two parameters and looking at your "female" to me it appears male. I believe if you move it to a new tank alone it will become a beautiful male.

My 2 cents.

Edit for more info- apistogramma are a species that has what is called "sneaker males" these are male fish that mimic in many ways a female so that a larger more dominate male will not attack them. The yellow coloring of your "female" will likely go away once separated from the large male and he will grow larger and become more colorful

 

[bludfire]

I agree with ErtyJr.

Unfortunately with the commercially bred cacatuoides the brightest and most colourful females are bred from as they sell best which minimizes the differences between the males and females for ID'ing.

As already pointed due to the dorsal fin shape and the lack of black on the front part of the pelvic fins they are definitely two males in the pics.

 

[Dano1311]

From my experience with cacs as stated above it is a male. If you got a spare tank to put it into you will soon have yourself a stunning dominant male

 

[davidjp1982]

Now my female juvenile has been in her brooding colours for the last week or so it seems crazy to think I was holding out hope this fish was a female! I don't have another tank to move him to but as long as his dad still tolerates him I will keep him. I'm quite attached actually as I have my beautiful cac male adult and one fish of each sex from my first 2 attempts at breeding 2 different strains

 

[Dano1311]

Cacs are my favorite i have five tanks each housing a pair and a tank with fry growing on and parents with fry (around 200) i love them, brilliant to watch.

 

[davidjp1982]

Unfortunately this fella is not long for this world - slowly deteriorated over a week or so - very thin and laying on bottom, difficulty coping with any water flow and seems to have blood visible under the skin on his head have tried treating with interpet #9 internal bacteria but if he gets much worse it will be a clove oil bath

 

[davidjp1982]

You can just see his tail where he is lying in a small cave in the rocks in the dark

 

[davidjp1982]

As expected I lost this fish - my first home bred apisto, he was the one fish I kept from my first spawn