ID apistogramma please

[Xenaph]

They are sold as Apistogramma Vielfleck orange, six fish no sexable 4 months ago.

The last photo, fish lost his dorsal i don't know what to do. I tried metafix and don't work.

 

[gerald]

I don't know the species, but they all look like girls.

 

[Mike Wise]

Gerald probably is correct. It's funny because I went to a LFS Monday looking for a dry food my apistos might eat. They just got a shipment of Czech fish in. One of the species was A. sp. Xingu (Vielfleck). They were the real Vielfleck population, but no females!

 

[Xenaph]

Are you sure all female,

I saw two "shaking" is it possible or it is shemale ?

 

[Midraj]

Females fight territory wars too. (sounds like an outdated protesters sign) [

] here is a vid of my lone female A. Baenschi batting off some pea puffers

 

[Mike Wise]

I find territorial fights between females are much more nasty than between males. Deaths are more common. As for all being females, it's hard to say. The photos are not really good enough to be even 90% sure.

 

[MickeM]

Hi Xenaph !

I have got the sp Vielfleck "Assurini"..F1+F2.. and sometimes I have problem to get males in the batches(??) .
Probably due to water temperature(somehow deciding which gender they will get) when they are still fry/ growing...

I agree with gerald ..The fishes on the pics looks like females..
My males show black dots(and blue-green metallic) on the gillcovers, and on the body at the age of 2-3 months.
Similar to the males you can find if you search the web on Apistogramma Vielfleck.. pictures/photos..

I added one photo of my first (Wildcaught male, no longer alive).
Hopefully you can order males from someone living close to you??

 

[MickeM]

If you have the possibility to order from the company Aquarium Glaser in Germany via your Local Fish Store, the sp Vielfleck is currently on their list. ( nr: 628744 Api.sp.R.XINGU(VIELFLECK)g.br. xlg )
g.br. = german bred (if g.br. + size = large-xlg, they should be able to deliver a "pair-guarantee".. if ordering 2pcs..)


Before you do this !!!!!!!! Be shur that your females really are the same sp "Xingu"/ sp "Vielfleck" by checking with the store where you bought your first fishes...
Otherwise you might end up crossbreeding two different "locality types" of these Apistos.. or even two different species, if they will be given different names later on!!!!
You can have a look at them on the great Norwegian Apisto website !! A-number 38 ..

I have never heard anyone call them "sp Vielfleck orange" until now...!!??!!

Maybe Mike, Tom C or someone else can help you with correct Info if you are interested??

 

[MickeM]

I took this pic on my F2 (second generation since the Wildcaught one) 30 min ago..

You can see the differences between male vs. female..... (left vs. right)

 

[Xenaph]

The person where i bought the fish, he import the fish from Thailland.

He have veilfeck yellow form like this:

And i order this form:

 

[Mike Wise]

There are 4-5 known populations/color morps of A. sp. Xingu. Your fish (if the same as bottom picture) appears to be A. sp. Xingu ("sp. aff. Piexoto") (and not the same species as A. sp. Peixoto). Note the lack of spots on the flanks and shorter red streak in the dorsal fin than the Vielfleck population. All of the populations are the same species. If crossed, you may lose/mix some markings, but that is all.

 

[MickeM]

Very interesting and important info...

Earlier I thought that Ap sp Vielfleck were separated in (only) 2 different "strains"/ locationtypes.. ("Xingu+Assurini")
I was really happy when I bought my wild caught Ap sp Vielfleck "Assurini" , then I would not have to guess its origin..

I have contact with people in the SKS (Scandinavian Killi Association) and we often debate different "strains"/ locationtypes concerning killifishes. They always try to keep the positioning data +other collecting data, by giving the species/"strains" a specific code. In that way you can keep track on the fishes decades after the first catching-/collecting trip.. Maybe something for Apistos as well?? (A-numbers+satelite positioning data??)

Many people think this is a tricky method, but actually it can be a preserving way to handle our species .
When a fishstrain have gotten a code it can not be considered as not important. (They become an valuable natural asset?)
Until scientific work has been done, they might be the only existing inividuals of its kind.
Even though they might , later on, be "just another" Vielfleck/Cacatouides/Agassizzi.. they might also be specific individuals with totaly different behaviour, surviving methods or breeding strategies than the "common" strains/species...?!!

I have also got info from people in the dartfrog hobby/society.
They seem to have discovered at least 2 species of dartfrogs living at the same location.. Coloured almost exactly the same, but mating only with their specific partners of the correct species.. I think they used some kind of UV-detecting cameras which showed (invisable to human eyes) different patterns... they also were singing in different ways....maybe helping them to find the correct partner??
These 2 frogs have probably survived thanks to their colours.. perfectly developed for surviving/not getting eaten by predators at that specific location...
The dartfrogs also contain species with more than 15 morphs..
Similar to the Ap. agassizzi (and others) in nature..


I also must say how funny I find it to be... A "Vielfleck"-strain ("Many spots"- in German language) without spots !!!

Is that an indication that the first individuals to be collected were Ap. sp. Xingu ("sp. aff. Piexoto") ??
The first strain/specimens had spots??

 

[Mike Wise]

The problem with apistos, compared to killies, is that most apistos are from commercial sources while hobbyists collect most new species/populations of killies. For the most part, we don't really know precisely where our apistos are collected. Many are just given names of the export/collecting station, not where they actually were collected. TomC & I, for example collected A. bitaeniata in the middle Río Shishita (above where the Río Curutu enters). We did not find A. bitaeniata Shishita, only A. bitaeniata Curutu. Until/unless me know exactly where a fish was collected - meaning not commercially - then we cannot be as precise as killi keepers.

 

[MickeM]

That`s true..

One important positive result from the Killi system must be the curiosity it induces to the hobbyists - to find out more about their fishes.

One of the most precise Apisto website in showing similar info,maps +photos must be Tom&Martins homepage. ( I have not missed any forum here I hope??)

In combination with this site I think that it contribute a lot to the hobby.. Your job and effort to report from trips, boost our fantasy and will to test new Apisto tanks..

Many thanks !!!

By the way..
If anyone want to try Killies as company to Apistos, I really must recommend Pseudoepiplatys anullatus to almost any small -medium sized Apisto.
If you have got a long (80cm< ) and high (40cm< ), you can try a pair of Epiplatys lamottei, E. roloffi or any other Epipl.
The Epipl. will mostly be at the surface while he Apistos at the bottom.

In a dense planted tank with plants at the surface, you probably will get fry from the Epipl. as well as the Apistos..
The Epipl. male guard the eggs (layed in Mosses or Plants), and if only one female is present she often leave the fry in peace.
If several females - they might eat eachothers eggs/ fry.

Please use slipcovers - the killies are excellent jumpers !!!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I really must recommend Pseudoepiplatys anullatus to almost any small -medium sized Apisto

I've used these in the past and they are good dithers.
<http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/apisto-and-killies.11565/>

cheers Darrel

 

[MickeM]

The Pseudoepipl. anullatus also helps if you have got problems with shy Apistos/small cichlids.

They make small cichlids less afraid of "sudden movement" appearing from above. (predatory birds, fishes and other hungry animals in nature)

Some other OK / beautiful tank partners to the Apistos, may be small specimen of Pseudomugil cf. paskai "red neon". At least if you only keep 3-5 of them, I don`t know if it will work along Apistos guarding fry when you add 10-15 pcs ??
When only a few, the Apisto female usually can keep track/chase them away.
The Ps.cf.paskai seem to be reacting and learning not to dare/oppose ?? the female.. ( The larger Ps. furcatus were acting more like common predators I think..)

Various species of Boraras, Sundadanio axelrodi and Hemiramphodon tengah are other species that seem to work well..
(As long as you keep them in longer, larger aquarium tanks.. 70-80 cm< )
If you have smaller tanks..go for the Pseudoepipl anullatus !!

My experience, when combining/adding small fishes to Apistos, is to calculate the risk when you put them in the tank.
The absolute best way to do it- put in the small ones, then let the Apistos enter the tank a few days later..
Then the Apistos probably will not see them as "food" entering.. which protects them from stress/hunting behavior the first days..

/ Mikael

 

[MickeM]

BTW ..
I have only kept the Sundadanio axerodi "Blue"... not the "Red" or "Green".....
I kept the S. axelrodi "Blue" in a 90x35x35 together with my wild caught Ap sp Vielfleck "Assurini" , Nanoptopoma sternopthycum(?) and Hemiramphodon tengah. 2 years ago..!!

 

[MickeM]

Some pics on the Nanoptopoma`s !!

They were really friendly.. always "on the edge", more active at night !!! Probably lives in schools..?? I kept 6 pcs..
and they did not disturb the Apisto with fry..
Approx. 4-5cm .. To big to enter the Apisto caves...

( My 2cm Ancistrus sp. did, earlier !!!! ..Egg eaters when given he oppurtunity.. Large Ancistrus sp. can not, due to size !! )