How many, and which dither fish for a 240l Dwarf tank?

[Pugwash]

Hi Guys,

I've recently aquired a trio of Nannacara anomala (Golden Dwarf Cichlid) and a trio of Apistogramma cacatoides (Cockatoo Cichlid) in the 1M 2F ratio. Both males are stunning, the Nannacara an amazing metalic blue and the Apisto a flaming orange/yellow.

I've returned to fishkeeping 6 months ago after 5 years, but used to use the inch rule based on surface area, which I know is out, and is based on bioload now (but don't know anywhere enough about this yet) and possibly fish volume. The tank is currently cycled with barbs, danios, gourami's and clown loaches at the moment (although the clown loaches appear to have given up on the snails!) which will be returned to a shop for a direct swap in batches.

So, I'm wondering if the following stocking capacity is anywhere close, with the dwarves?
10 Marbled Hatchetfish
10 Golden Pencilfish
10 Black Neons
15 Neons

I may swap the Black Neons for either Diamond, Yellow or Lemon tetras as I'm wondering if the Neons and the Black Neons might be too much of the same reflective action going on.
Or just have 3 slightly larger shoals going on, but I figured the hatchetfish will remain at the top, the pencilfish for some mid-top activity, and the 2 other shoals pottering around the middle-bottom...

Tank's already planted with a wall of vallis hiding a log, 2 lotus lily's providing surface cover, and some java fern and anubias hiding a tree root and cave.

And slightly off topic, but do shrimps work with dwarves? I'm imagining not.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[TetraFreak]

So, I'm wondering if the following stocking capacity is anywhere close, with the dwarves?
10 Marbled Hatchetfish
10 Golden Pencilfish
10 Black Neons
15 Neons

Hi there!

The Hatchets & Pencilfish are a great choice!

As for the tetras...
I'd say modify to the following:

15 Lemon tetras for the Stunning yellow in the tank
10 Serpae or Long Finned Serpae for a brilliant Red.

these tetras are a bit larger than the neons & black neons but definately give some great color when they're happy & healthy!

One more thing...
With all the fish species being SA only, have you thought about having SA Only plants as well? it would make things alot closer to their natural environment and make for a totally STUNNING aquarium to show off to your visitors. a TRUE South American Species tank!

Hope this helps!

-TF

 

[Pugwash]

Well, I wrote a good long reply, only for it to fail to upload, so here goes again.

Thanks for the suggestions TF, it sounds like a more lively and interesting setup.

I certainly like the idea of the Lemon Tetras squabbling amongst themselves. However, I'm a little dubious with the Serpae's and both the male dwarves finnage. Or will the fact the Serpae's are in a shoal contain their behaviour?

I did have 3 amazon swords (bletheri sp?) but due to the hard water here in London, they produced narrow leaves. That, and they were being sheltered by the growing number of lily leaves (but no flowers :frown: ) I swapped them for Java fern which looks better. However, I would be interested if there are 4-5 SA plant species that could exist in 1.5wpg with no CO2 injection (nor will there be in the near future).

I intend to leave the bottom for the cichlids, so didn't factor in cories or algea eaters. However, I'm curious as to whether dwarf cichlids can exist with shrimps, or will the shrimp become dinner/bullied? There's also the snails that have co-existed with the clown loaches somehow, but do a good job at cleaning the algae, which may need controlling once the loaches leave.

 

[Jayhawk]

FWIW - have you considered black phantom tetras? They do well with slightly highe pH values, aren't overly nippy, and the males display is fun to watch. Just an idea.

Not related to your question at all, but I think N. anomola males are one of the most stunningly beautiful cichlids out there. You've got a good sized tank so it may not be an issue, but do keep an eye on the male when one of the females has eggs/fry because those little ladies are almost demonic in the way they drive the male away...if you can find watersprite and float it in your tank it provides a nice hiding place for when the females get rough (or floating balls of java fern).

Eric

 

[TetraFreak]

I've had Serpae tetras in the past and never had any issues with fin nipping. heard others say the opposite though. Diamonds, though exspensive from what I hear, might be well worth the investment.

Cleanup crew...
You could go with a large school of Otos for algae control and.pr a pair of bristlenose Pleccos. Cories are also an option but if the apistos spawn, they may go after them to protect their eggs. Bolivian Rams are known for this so the apistos might do it too.

As far as the shrimp...I'd hold off as they would most likely become snacks.


As far as the plants go...
If no desire for pressurized co2, then you might want to look at a DIY setup as it's very economical to put together.

Plants:
Bacopa, Cabomba, Anachairis, E. Tinellus, Parrots Feather, & Various swords all would be good. Alot depends if you're using ferts and are using a plant substrate such as flourite.

 

[retro_gk]

Serpae tetras will only nip at fins if they aren't fed enough.

All the Hyphessobrycon species I've kept would have tattered fins everytime I returned from a vacation... it may be a survival mechanism to help them get through lean periods.

 

[Mike Wise]

And slightly off topic, but do shrimps work with dwarves? I'm imagining not.

If small enough, the dwarf cichlids will eat them. I doubt that any under 2"/5cm will be safe.

 

[Pugwash]

keep an eye on the male when one of the females has eggs/fry because those little ladies are almost demonic in the way they drive the male away

One of the females turns the bumblebee colour pretty much every other day currently, but fortunately hasn't settled down to one spot yet. There is some floating plants with long dangling roots amongst the lily leaves, so he's got a high refuge, as well as the other end of the tank (a seperate unclaimed territory - both seem to be hankering after the tree root area, not the fallen log bit). The males are to busy figuring out which females are their species too, as the A.cacatoides females are a lot more curious about the males than the female N.anomala.

I'm set on the Lemon and Serpae mix (although might check out the diamond one's if they're in the LFS) now, as I believe the aggression will be contained. Do you recommend adding in the following order:
15 Lemon Tetra
10 Pencilfish
10 Hatchetfish
10 Serpae

The cleanup crew I don't think is necessary, as I have MTS and Mystery snails chomping at the algae, which 4 clown loaches can't eradicate (the snails have set up home in the safe refuge of the filter), and they're doing a good job against the algae. My only concern is keeping the snails in check, and may consider a banjo cat if necessary (my partner can't stand the barbels on the clown loaches, and she is pleased they're going) but have heard one species releases fear pheramones (sp?) but can't find out which. I'll leave the shrimp out too.

I'm delaying any CO2 system at the moment for a year or 2 due to my 1.5 lad - he's intrigued with the tank and would pull the pipes out (water changes and new fish are entertaining for him), so trying to keep it as self contained as possible for the moment, unless I can figure a way of getting everything to come out of the back, as I can lock the cupboards underneath easily. The substrate does have an inch of flourite along with 1.5 inches of river sand, which the current plants love, supplemented with fertiliser tabs periodically.

 

[TetraFreak]

Hi There!

You should be able to add the tetras, pencilfish, & hatchets at the same time with no worries. they all are very peacefull. just make sure that they're all aclimated correctly to the new water before going in. Also, you may want to quarentine them first to make sure no ich or anything else. hate to see ya lose apistos because of something brought in from the FLS water.

you may want to consider the cleanup crew down the road then, in the event that the snails don't keep up.

 

[Pugwash]

Great stuff TF.

My acclimatisation technique seems quite effective and I refuse to add the lfs water to my tank, as I don't have a quarantine tank as we don't have the room currently (until a new house is bought!). I use a drip method over a period of 2 hours into a bucket with the fish in (this fascinates my lad) and then net the fish out and put them in the tank with the lights off. As yet I've not had a loss yet with this method - and one of my lfs uses soft water.

Intially my tank was going to be a discus one, but couldn't get the water right for them, so never bothered. I did however learn a wealth of information from a discus forum when I was setting the tank up, and came across this method of acclimatisation (when I was loads younger I used to just float the bag and then dump the fish in!).

Another tip was to raise the tank temperature to near 90 for a week, if ich or something appearred, as this heat would kill the micro-organisms. Obviously all parameters would need close monitoring during this period too. Thankfully I haven't had to do this yet though.

I've just rung one of my lfs (the one that uses South American imports; the other 2 use Asain ones) and they have reserved 15 Lemon Tetras for me :biggrin: Will be picking them up tomorrow and swapping for the barbs.