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Help with new breeding set-up. Please?

spankler

New Member
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3
Hi everyone!
First of all, I am brand new to this forum, so if I break protocol I apologize in advance. I recently came back to the hobby after a long spell away and am keeping Apistos and other dwarfs (dwarves?) again. I recently got a couple of 40 breeders for dirt cheap and thought I'd start raising fish again. Here's where the question comes in: I would like to divided each tank in half (width or lenghtwise? Any advantages to either?) with the goal of keeping one pair per separate 20 gallon area. Would that be enough space? Also thinking of adding a few habrosus cories and maybe some dither fish like neons or nanostomma ssp. I can either make the dividers solid or with various degrees of permeability--but impossible for fry to pass through--to have extra water circulation. They would also be blackwater (when appropriate) with sponge filters. How does this sound to start? I'm really looking forward to hearing from Apisto breeders b/c this is a genus I haven't tried before. Thanks everyone and glad to "meet" you!
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
Here's where the question comes in: I would like to divided each tank in half (width or lenghtwise? Any advantages to either?) with the goal of keeping one pair per separate 20 gallon area. Would that be enough space?
I would employ dividers rather to separate fish in case they don't click. Don't get in over your head. With too many breeding pairs. You will still need space for growout.

Also thinking of adding a few habrosus cories
Corydoras do not respect territory borders and can't read the cichlids warning display. A brooding female Apisto might get stressed so much by the Corydoras zipping through her territory she might eat her fry or start to attack the catfish. That might cost a C. habrosus an eye. In a bigger tank (150x50cm footprint) Apistos and Corydoras work as a display tank, but in a breeding tank - Bad idea. Decide: Breeding or display tank.

maybe some dither fish like neons or nanostomma ssp
a. dithers are not mandatory.
b. if any - Go for Nannostomus. Tetras are brood predators.

They would also be blackwater (when appropriate) with sponge filters.
Do you have experience with softwater aquatics?

What species of Apistogramma are you planning for?
 

spankler

New Member
Messages
3
Hey MacZ, thanks for the detailed reply!Here are some answers and some more questions--

"I would employ dividers rather to separate fish in case they don't click. Don't get in over your head. With too many breeding pairs. You will still need space for growout."
If you mean what I think you do, the "couples" I put in will have already paired up themselves. Then, I would add the female first and then the male after about a week. Kinda like staying celibate for awhile before the wedding night, lol.

"You will still need space for growout."

I will have 4 empty 10 gals ready with water and filter material from the original tank to make for a smooth transition. I know what I'd do with West and Central Africans, but what about Apistos? Is it better to move the fry or the parents? I've seen opinions equally on both sides-
-which do you move when it's time?

"Corydoras do not respect territory borders and can't read the cichlids warning display."

Great info! My Pelvicachromis and other similar gen. treat cories as invisible (or beneath contempt?) So that's good news as it's just less mouths to feed and less of a bio-load.

"a. dithers are not mandatory.
b. if any - Go for Nannostomus. Tetras are brood predators."

I always thought they (dithers) kinda helped. Well, I *am* kinda sick of neons, et. al. I was also thinking of maybe marbled hatchets or clown killifish just to keep some separation in the strata. As far as water, I keep mainly soft water spp now, I think the highest Ph I currently have is 6.0.As far as fish, some possibles are A. borellii, A. erythrura, A. elizabethae, A. macmasteri and A. nijsseni. I might do a Microgeophagus or two, I especially like M. alitispinosus and also Dicrossus filamentosa Maybe even something like a Cichlosoma compressiceps. A lot of this is going to depend on what I can get for breeding stock. I am looking for health first, form second and color as a bonus, i.e, I'm not interested in trying to come up with the next cacatuoides flavor of the month, just really good examples of the species.
Hey, here's another question: If you work with dividers, what do you use? I am refusing to pay $40 for what is basically a piece of thin plastic with holes in it so am looking for materials to make my own.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,959
Location
Germany
If you mean what I think you do, the "couples" I put in will have already paired up themselves. Then, I would add the female first and then the male after about a week. Kinda like staying celibate for awhile before the wedding night, lol.
In my experience it is rare the fish really pair up. If the female isn't in breeding mood the male will chase her relentlessly, and once she is guarding eggs, he is the one getting the short end of the stick. There are species that do brood care together, but that is not always the case. So simply put: Make sure you can separate them at any given point.
I will have 4 empty 10 gals ready with water and filter material from the original tank to make for a smooth transition. I know what I'd do with West and Central Africans, but what about Apistos? Is it better to move the fry or the parents? I've seen opinions equally on both sides-
-which do you move when it's time?
I do not breed anymore, but when I still bred fish (I was specialized on east african rift lake species): Leave them with the mother until she stops caring. Who gets removed depends a bit on the practicality. If it's easier to remove the female, get her out, if it's easier to pull the juveniles, then it's them. For growout you should definitely have 100 liters minimum at your disposal. Smaller growouts mean growths spurts after waterchanges but stunting from hormone buildup inbetween. The bigger the growout, the more consistent the growth.
Great info! My Pelvicachromis and other similar gen. treat cories as invisible (or beneath contempt?) So that's good news as it's just less mouths to feed and less of a bio-load.
When it comes to breeding in my opinion a species tank is the way to go.
As far as water, I keep mainly soft water spp now, I think the highest Ph I currently have is 6.0.
What TDS/EC-range? That's more important than pH.
As far as fish, some possibles are A. borellii, A. erythrura, A. elizabethae, A. macmasteri and A. nijsseni. I might do a Microgeophagus or two, I especially like M. alitispinosus and also Dicrossus filamentosa Maybe even something like a Cichlosoma compressiceps.
Leave Dicrossus for last, they are not hard to breed as such, but the water preferences to get them to breed are a whole lot of work. Hard enough to get them right now, as Colombia has put a collection and export ban in place until 2024.
A. borellii and A. macmasteri are the easier species, not fuzzy about much and very overrepresented in the hobby. If you go for one of them, maybe do one spawn to a hold of how it works with Apistogramma and move on. Both species are so common, you might sit on the fry for a while.
A lot of this is going to depend on what I can get for breeding stock.
Very depending on where you live.
am looking for health first, form second and color as a bonus, i.e,
good!
I'm not interested in trying to come up with the next cacatuoides flavor of the month, just really good examples of the species.
Honestly... stay away from all these domestic strains, the local market is quickly oversaturated and the competition is fierce as any Tom, **** and Harry and their grandma breeds them.
If you work with dividers, what do you use?
I don't. Back in the day we got opaque plexi glass sheets cheap (wholesale price via our family business) and just drilled holes in them, if we needed dividers at all. But those where only necessary when putting males of Malawi cichlids on hold when all the females where holding.
 

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