Grow out vs. Breeding Tanks?

[StillLearningApistos]

So I’m about to order the following species: A. agassizii tefe/A. sp. tefe, A macmasteri, A. borellii, and MAYBE A. cf. ortegai (Pebas). I’ve bred tefe and borellii in the past (though the tefe I’m about to order are supposed to be wild caught…), but trying something a little different this time. Just curious on your thoughts for tank sizes.

In the past, everything I’ve bred was in 20 gallon longs, with the exception of a group of A. cacatuoides that I bred in a 40 breeder. The tefe I remember being larger fish, too, and I was thinking of putting either them or the macmasteri (never owned this species) in a 60 gallon breeder, and all the rest in their own 40 breeder, and then growing them out in a mix of 29, 20 long, and a 40 breeder. I know it can be done either way, but I was just curious if 20 long/29 was enough room for grow out, if I’m just doing one generation at a time, and then letting some try to raise in the tanks they’re breeding in? I know most breed in 20 long, I just kinda like the idea of the larger species (borellii is smaller, I know), being in larger tanks to breed.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[MacZ]

You can breed all of them in 80 Liters, even 60 Liters. But the smaller the breeding tank the likelier you'll have to remove the males after spawning or separate them while the female is not yet ready to breed, because basically all these species except A. borellii are well known to harrass females not ready to spawn basically to death and the females to become really mean and aggressive once the fry have hatched. The smaller the tank the likelier because the fish can't evade each other that easily.

For growout I'd use the bigger tanks. The bigger the growout the less maintenance. e.g. in a 60 Liter with an average batch of fry (20-30) you'd have to do waterchanges daily, in a 100 Liter you can skip a day or two without consequences.

In the end it's all up to your preferences and possibilities.

 

[Mike Wise]

A 20 gallon long is good for raising 20 fry to about ½"/3.5cm size, then you will need to split or cull them.

 

[StillLearningApistos]

A 20 gallon long is good for raising 20 fry to about ½"/3.5cm size, then you will need to split or cull them.

Yeah. In the past, I’ve generally been okay with leaving in tank with both parents (borellii and panduro were fine every time), or moving dry to 20 longs (cacatuoides and tefe), but like I said, trying to figure what’s best for all fish involved. What about moving just the male out? How much survival would one expect doing this? Maybe leaving the female and fry in larger tanks and moving the males to individual smaller tanks?

 

[MacZ]

What about moving just the male out? How much survival would one expect doing this? Maybe leaving the female and fry in larger tanks and moving the males to individual smaller tanks?

Moving the male has no effect on the fry survival rate, I haven't seen any Apistogramma males participating in fry care beyond territory defense (if that happened at all).

I would leave fry with the mother until she stops caring and move them then. That provided the highest survival rates.

 

[anewbie]

Because i never follow the rules i must have 50 or 60 frys in this aquarium ranging from 1 1/2 inch to 1/4 inch:

Of course these are not agassizii and i'm finding the a. sp blutkehl much more passive towards the near adult frys; of the species you listed i think only borelli would remain passive to so many frys having said that i'm going to tear it down in a week - give them a larger aquarium (48x15 - current is 12x30); and remove a lot of the frys but given how passive the parents have been leave some of them in there. As for water condition - the ec remains in that 18-20 range so i guess the fishes help the plants and the plants help the fishes ?

 

[Mike Wise]

My experience has been that in small tanks with many fry the fry grow slower and end up stunted.

 

[MacZ]

My experience has been that in small tanks with many fry the fry grow slower and end up stunted.

Which is the last thing you want when you have several batches to grow out and rehome/sell.

 

[anewbie]

Well stunting would be an issue of course and i hope mine are not stunted though like i said i won't know till i tear the tank down - as it kind of went wild with plants.