Enflamed Vent

[Apistogramm-Sam]

Recently I noticed a slight bulge around the vent of my male A. cacatuoides. With in a few days the bulge had enlarged and the vent seemed to be enflamed and red with what looked like a few small strands of an organ hanging out. Has anyone had this happen to their Apistos or other fish or what is the cause of it? All my other Apistos that were in the tank with the cackatoo are now exhibiting slight bulges around their vents except for my breeding pair of A. gibbiceps. I have taken the precaution of separating the pair from the others just in case. Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

 

[LeviathanGirl]

It looks like an egagerated case of the same thing that has befallen my apistos. The threads you see are exactly what is sticking out of mine, only in smaller portions. Like one or 2 threads per fish. One of the fish in my tank is starting to show symptoms just like that(swelling), thankfully its a guppy and not one of the Apistos. Camallanus Worms. Theres good information in the thread I posted on my problem.

They are barely noticeable at first and I only caught them cause I have good eyes and I carefully inspect my fish daily. I'm a fanatic on my fish's health and I absolutly love every detail of every fish I own. I finally got ahold of meds for them today and have started treatment. I can tell you that yes that other pair is probably infected too and they should ALL be treated. Try using a magnifying glass to inspect their vents and even if you dont see them visibly treat them. It spreads through the water. From the information I have gathered here and from other fish people and groups I know levamisol is the best thing for it and they are easy to get rid of. Considering how bad your infestation sounds/looks I'm not certain if your fish are too far infested or not, but its worth a shot to treat them.

It may also be a good idea for you to inspect any fish that they have shared equipment, such as nets, with and maybe to treat them as a preventative too.

If I am wrong someone stop me! But I swear that is exactly whats going on in my tank.

Genn

 

[tjudy]

Most likely Camullanus worms (a nematode). Do you feed live blackworms? They are an intermediate host.

If the fish is eating you should probably try infusing food with metrodinazole (Metro+ by AquariumScience and distributed by Hikari USA is a good formulation that is usually available), or a general treatment of the tank with praziquantel (PraziPro by the same company). Levamisol works, but you have to get that in sheep or pig dewormer through a farm supply store, and then figuring out dosage is tough.

Camullanus is tough to beat.

 

[LeviathanGirl]

Thanks Ted,
I trust your advice. I ended up getting the metrodinazole as it was all I could find. I was told their easy to get rid of however and it really upsets me that people have been telling me that. I want these things gone before it gets worse and I loose these fish. I dont feed live foods right now as all I have left of the cultures I had are grindals and whites and I am letting them recharge cause they almost died off.

Thanks,
Genn

 

[Apistogramm-Sam]

Thanks for the info guys I really appreciate it. These fish have never been fed live blackworms. I only feed BBS, daphnia, cyclopeeze, and very sparingly some frozen bloodworms once in a while.

 

[fishgeek]

some corrections for this thread, i hope i dont come across too arrogant

transmission of camallanus within an aquarium set up is unlikely
nets, equipment and the like are not thought to be common contaminators
because camallanus has a complex life cycle , this means that the adult worms that infect fish also have larval/juvenile stages that infect other insect vectors ie dahnia cyclops etc
there are some camallanus species that are able to produce infective larva for a number of life cycles though probably not indefintely

metrondazol is antibiotic with antiprotozoal effect , this means that it will be effective against some bacteria and protozoa but certainly willhave no effect against worms of any sort

praziquantel is a cestocide, this means that it will kill tapeworms

camallanus is a nematode and it requires an anthelminthic medication to be treated
suitable products include and are not limited too, levemisol, flubendazol,fenbendazol and prehaps ivermectin

i can provide refrenced dosing for prducts if people are interested

andrew

 

[Apistogramm-Sam]

Where can I find flubendazol,fenbendazol and or ivermectin? Or do any aquarium product companies make meds with them? I work at an aquarium shop and none of our meds have that in their ingredients. I've already got Metro+ and Prazipro. I'll give one or the other a shot as soon as I get home.

 

[LeviathanGirl]

I wish one of the local shops here at least had prazipro. I called every shop in the area and not one carried meds for internal parasites or for worms of any kind. They all had antibiotics and things for fungus and things like ick. I am at my whits end with them all at this point.

 

[fishgeek]

medications that are effective against nematodes are not common in the aquarium trade

most medications available in the aquarium trade are over the counter medications, this means restrcitions on sales are limited
in the usa there are more products available in this fashion than there are in the uk

i do not have access to american vetererinary texts to know if trade names for these products is the same over there

benzimadols(flubendazol/febendazol/levamisol/mebendazol)
panacur is a trade name fro fenbendazolthese medications are flavoured and are likely to contain things that would spoil our tank water , hence not advisable unless experimentig in a small tank as in feed mediation with no fish in water!

i know that one of the pet store wormers contains fenbendazol, either bob martins or sherley's in england not sure if those companies/names trade in the usa
flubendazol seems to be a more european choice for medication, only place i have found it is as a pultry wormer in uk, prehaps some one who has some knowledge of poultry in the usa may comment?

ivermectin (family avermectins) is prescription only in the uk though i do belive there are other members of the same family used in equine worming paste's, this group of medications may have more toxic neurological effects than the previously listed drugs , though it is used widely in farmed salmon so some fisheries applications

did we not have a member who worked in fisheries ? prehaps they can comment more on availability of medications in the usa

andrew

 

[tjudy]

All of those wormers are available over he counter through farm supply stores, but they are designed for deworming livestock. I have only tried levamisol, with good success. But I experimented on feeder fish to make sure I was not going to poison my breeding stock. THe brand I was using was dicontinued by the store i got it at, so now I have to try a different brand and experiment all over again.

 

[Apistogramm-Sam]

I've got some levamisole now and I'm planning on treating the infected fish with it soon. Do the Camullanus worms have a dormant cycle in their life? I'm hoping to just clear my big tank of fish and let it ride for a while with out them. I really don't want to treat the big tank unless I absolutely have to.

 

[LeviathanGirl]

http://inkmkr.com/Fish/CamallanusTreatment/

Follow the first link. All the information you need to know about treating the worms is there. I contacted the chemist/fish hobbiest myself and have recieved the medication and treated my fish. All the worms dropped dead from my fish within the first half hour. The medication does not effect your plants or the protozoa in the tank whatsoever. It is also of importance that after the treatment you should change the tank water and begin treatment with an antibacterial to prevent any damage the worms may have caused to become infected and therefor killing your fish via secondary infection. The treatment itself has no side effects. If you have any more questions please private message me and I'll help the best I can.

I am lucky that none of my tanks contain gravel at this time due to them being temporary setups until the rest of my equipment arrives from storage back in WA. It was recommended that I treat any and all tanks that may have come into contact with the infected tank or even a drop of water from that tank as well.

 

[fishgeek]

Unfortunately not all we read on the internet is true

Treatment of cammallanus can be done in many ways
If you d not want to treat the main tank then a higher dose short term dip has been used by some , i would not advise this as an intial use of a new medication
if thinking about higher concentration solutions then a small container with treatment water and another with untreated tank water should be available
The fish should not be released from the net and should be suspended in the treatment with the ability to quickly transfer it back to untreated water
much like i would do if using high level salt dips

Levamisol is a neuromuscular paralysing agaent, over dosing can certainly lead t neurological blockade in the fish
inappetance is the most commonly encountered side effect

The complex life cycle of camallanus should mean that theoretically it can not transmit even within your tank, so talk of larval stages in the substrate(yes they do this in nature) are unlikely to occur in the average aquarium - most of the intermediate hosts will be eaten by fish so in general they will not be availbe for the larval worms to progress through to adult(fish infective stages)

Saying that there are some species of camallanus that can have a direct life cycle for periods of time

All nematodes have the ability to have a dormant(encysted in musculature usually) life stage ... if a fish dies and is eaten this can then infect the next fish, again i would think that this route of transmission is low in the usual hobbiest aquarium
These encysted stages(larval hiden within a walled off area of fish) are not susceptible to the levamisol treatment
niether for that matter are any life stages that may not be within the digestive tract of the fish

The stories of worms casuing blockage within the gastrointestinal tract sound contary to my experience in which large numbers of dying worms (they can no longer grip the gut lining, nor swim against the currnt) usually lead to a temporary irritation and hypermotility in the GI tract

Dosing with levamisol should be at 1-2mgs of active product to each litre of water

Andrew

 

[LeviathanGirl]

All I know is that it worked. The worms dropped dead within 30 mins of that treatment. The fish look and behave perfectly fine and started spawning today(3rd day after treatment).

BTW, May I ask what do you do for a living?

 

[fishgeek]

totally agree that levamisol works , i have used it aswell to good effect

And you may certainly ask , i am a vet though i hvae no aquatic clients , fish have just been a hobby for the past 5 yr's and i thought since i had some training i should try and refresh that one lecture i got on fish disease so many years ago

andrew

oh and most veterinary aquatic texts still make statements like camallanus is a disease of live bearers, we have experienced differently i can asuume from these posts

 

[LeviathanGirl]

Thats a great profession. I myself thought about going into it several years ago, but I cant stand needles and the thought of cutting a live animal open makes me squeemish. LOL

As I have been in the hobby for nearly 13 years now I have decided to start college once my son starts regular schooling. I plan on taking Ichtheology. I'll be taking alot of my preclasses online to begin with before that time so I can start right in on the good stuff.

I have written the Dr. who I got my info from and asked him about working with smaller doses. I'll see what he says. He's been working with the drug on that cure for several years now and is still compiling informaion and doing studies on his own.

 

[fishgeek]

genn if i remember correctly the dose's in charles work are 1.5mgs/l so the dosing is fine, and i have seen ancedotal reports of dosing upto 10mgs/l

i may have been unclear in what i was trying to correct

lots of internet dosing is so badly calculated with just suggestion of 2 grams of X and no understanding of the fact that name X may come is varying concentrations


some of the drugs's listed in this thread are not appropriate treatment for camallanus, levamisol is certainly a useful medication

spread of the infection is not in theory that easy , though studies on aquaculture parasites are still limited and science is ever changing as we discover that what we intially believed is not actually true

any medication that can have an effect will almost certainly have an counter effect, dont believe claims of no side effects unless you are prepared to accept no effect at all

andrew

 

[Apistogramm-Sam]

Is it possible for the camullanus infection or the levamisole to cause sterility? I treated my apistos with the levamisole and they haven't spawned since then. Before the treatment they were spawning every two to three weeks.

 

[fishgeek]

i am not certain from where statements like this arise
i know i have read things to this effect before

levamisole is a benzimadole anthelminthic
it acts on certain neuromuscular receptors(nicotinic) to cause paralysis of worms
it also has some effects on carbohydrate metabloism within the parasite and host immune response's

high dosage can lead to gastrointestinal signs in mamals and birds
over doasage can lead to respiratory failure by paralysis in mamals and birds

i am aware of no recorded fertility issue's in either mamals nor birds

prehaps the generally debilitating nature of these parasites needs to be recovered from before the fish will have the nutrient reserves to even think of spawning

andrew