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Dicrossus maculatus's PH and hardness???

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
I kept them for about 18 months before they bloated. <"They did fairly well">, and were in good condition until just before they died. The tank was soft water, but definitely not "black-water".

The conductivity was about 80 - 150 microS, I didn't measure anything else.

cheers Darrel
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Low-ish, but not super low. GH hardness 0.5 to 3 degrees (9 to 50 mg/L) and pH 5.0 to 6.5 should be OK. They're mostly from streams near the main-stem Amazon, not the extreme blackwater habitats like Rio Negro and Orinoco (where D. filamentosus lives).
 
Low-ish, but not super low. GH hardness 0.5 to 3 degrees (9 to 50 mg/L) and pH 5.0 to 6.5 should be OK. They're mostly from streams near the main-stem Amazon, not the extreme blackwater habitats like Rio Negro and Orinoco (where D. filamentosus lives).
What about 6.8-7 for thr ph? Is that ok for them?
 
Low-ish, but not super low. GH hardness 0.5 to 3 degrees (9 to 50 mg/L) and pH 5.0 to 6.5 should be OK. They're mostly from streams near the main-stem Amazon, not the extreme blackwater habitats like Rio Negro and Orinoco (where D. filamentosus lives).
What about 6.8-7
Hi all,
I kept them for about 18 months before they bloated. <"They did fairly well">, and were in good condition until just before they died. The tank was soft water, but definitely not "black-water".

The conductivity was about 80 - 150 microS, I didn't measure anything else.

cheers Darrel
Do they get bloat very easy?
 

Hellfishguy

Member
I've found that blackworms & bloodworms caused them to bloat very quickly. Once I changed their diet to flake, pellet, frozen brine & grindal worms the bloating ceased. One of my tank raised D. maculatus is 3 years old.
 
I've found that blackworms & bloodworms caused them to bloat very quickly. Once I changed their diet to flake, pellet, frozen brine & grindal worms the bloating ceased. One of my tank raised D. maculatus is 3 years old.
Because the black worms and bloodworms may carry bacteria?
 

Hellfishguy

Member
My wild caught fish were not picky eaters. They ate flake as enthusiastically as my home bred chex.

D. maculatus aren't black water fish, so they don't require the tanins from almond leaves, but they seem to enjoy flipping leaves over searching for food. I use oak leaves, which don't break down as quickly as almond leaves, plus they're free.
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
....Do they get bloat very easy?
If I keep them again I'd feed them a diet with a lot more crustaceans in it, and probably avoid the Black-worms.

I raise my own Black-worms (Lumbriculus), and "ranch" Blood-worms (Chironomid) in clean water, so I don't think it is a bacterial, or heavy-metal, issue.

They aren't difficult to feed, in fact quite the opposite, which may be part of the problem.

They definitely like leaves and "flip the leaf" is always a popular past time.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all, If I keep them again I'd feed them a diet with a lot more crustaceans in it, and probably avoid the Black-worms.

I raise my own Black-worms (Lumbriculus), and "ranch" Blood-worms (Chironomid) in clean water, so I don't think it is a bacterial, or heavy-metal, issue.

They aren't difficult to feed, in fact quite the opposite, which may be part of the problem.

They definitely like leaves and "flip the leaf" is always a popular past time.

cheers Darrel
So even frozen bloodworms is no good for them?
 

dw1305

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Hi all,
So even frozen bloodworms is no good for them?
I don't feed any Blood-worms I haven't raised myself, and I only feed live ones.

Commercial Blood-worm harvesting is from very polluted water and I'm not sure about the freezing process either.

I've never had any problem with home-raised Blood-worm, <"they are a natural food for Apistogramma"> and high in chitin. They are midge (Chironomid) larvae rather than being a true (annelid) worm.

I think the issue with Black-worms is probably the high amounts of fat and protein, which is probably also the case for other annelid (Grindal, White and Tubifex) worms, and they would be fine as a minor component of the fishes diet.

The Dicrossus I had really liked Black-worms and I've found for most fish they are the most favoured live food item.

cheers Darrel
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Commercial blackworms and bloodworms are usually harvested from aquaculture and animal production waste ponds, and the bacteria in the worms are NOT killed by freezing or freeze-drying unless they are "sterilized" with radiation. Growing (or "ranching") your own worms is thus safer in terms of avoiding Myco and other pathogenic bacteria. But if the fish cannot properly digest the fats and proteins in them, as Darrel suspects, then even home-cultured ones might cause bloating. Bloat can have many different causes. My D. mac group from Finzz (grandkids of Hellfishguy's breeders) have been doing well on a mix of flake, tiny pellets, frozen brine shrimp, frozen mysis, live daphnia, and live blackworms. I've been careful to limit the blackworms based on others' advice.
 

Hellfishguy

Member
I've kept many species, including D maculatus, healthy & spawning without having to resort to blood or blackworms. It's just not worth the risk. My macs would spawn after a heavy feeding of BBS. It was a joy to watch a 3.5 inch male picking off Artemia nauplii with the species' signature downward bobbing motion.
 
Ok I will just stay with pellets or flakes then. Is it ok to keep them at 78F or do they need higher temperature even when they are not in a breeding period?
 
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