Dicrossus Filamentosus

[Andrew C]

I got a trio of D. Filamentosus recently.
One of the females laid eggs after only one week, but they fungused and dissapeared within a couple of days.
The pH of the tank then was 6.




I have lowered the pH over the past eight days and it is now 5.3, and aim to keep the pH just above 5.
The female has laid eggs again and i am hoping they will not fungus this time and that it is nothing i am doing that is causing this.






What is the best pH for keeping and breeding D. Filamentosus ?
I read that they need a very low pH of 4.5 to 5, which is blackwater to me.
But after checking Cichlid Atlas 1 by Dr Uwe Romer on D. Filamentosus, it says that they are rarely found in blackwater, that they are found in clear water, which is a ph of 6.5 and above.

I thought at first, the higher pH was the reason to blame for the eggs fungusing, but after reading Romers profile of D. Filamentosus, i'm not so sure.

 

[Randall]

Diocrossus filamentosus

Hello Andrew,

Thank you for sharing those great photos!

Diocrossus filamentosa is a soft water fish for sure. The pH, however, may not be as important as the overall conductivity of the water. How are you lowering the pH? If you are adding chemicals to lower the pH, the conductivity increases proportionately. It may be better for your fish to withstain a higher pH but benefit from a lower conductivity. At least this way, the eggs will develop properly.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Andrew C]

Hello Randall
My tap water is very soft with a ph around 7.6, and i am using peat to lower the ph, no chemicals, so hopefully the conductivity is alright for them.

I do not have a conductivity meter, will price them and get one, as i intend to get a tds meter.

No sign of fungused eggs today, and they were showing by this time on the last batch.
Fingers crossed.

What is the best/recommended ph for D. Filamentous ?

Thanks.

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

I was keeping mine in R/O water. They did spawn for me and I raised the fry in the tank with the others. Recently I have noticed some fin burn on them. This may be due to me being lazy and not changing water as often as I should. I am going back to weekly water changes and have started using Kent R/O right. I add the recommended ammount for discus to the water before each change. Its only been a couple weeks but hopefully things will get better.

 

[Andrew C]

It is three days and the first female still has eggs, though she has moved them to on top of a sponge filter, but she is still hovering over them.

Now the second female of the trio laid eggs last night, at the other end of the tank and she is hovering over them.

The male is now resigned to hiding as he must be taking a beating from both females when he trys to move around.

The trio are in a 2ft tank, do you think the two females will be able to raise fry in such close proximity ?

I will post pictures tonight of the two females with eggs

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

You lucky dog! I have never seen a better mother than my dicrossus mom. I left my spawn in the ten gallon with mom and four males. The population slowly dwindled over time but six survived and are now about an inch and a half long. They are all in a 20L now. Once I move again I plan to separate them out and try to let them spawn again. I'd bet that yours would be able to raise the fry to free swimming stage without problems, then maybe you could remove either the fry or the adults. Lets see those pics! I'd also be interested in some shots of the whole setup as well.

 

[Andrew C]

The tank set up is a 2Ft tank, with two sponge filters run off an airpump, water temperature 28 degrees, thin layer of sand, some slate for breeding surfaces and peat filtered water with a ph of just above 5.

Horst Linke & Staeck's book says "Approximately 48 hours after laying eggs the larvae hatch (if the female does not eat the eggs), the larvae are subsquently relocated by the female several times a day.
The site is changed at least once a day, six to seven days after spawning on average their devolpment is completed, and a "proud mother" guides a school of more than 100 young fish through the aquarium.

More like twenty to thirty fry in my case, if everthing works out.
That explains the females behaviour a lot, and it looks like i'm in for an anxious weekend with female 1, hoping everything goes alright !

Female 1 has moved her eggs onto the glass at the back corner of the tank, beside the sponge filter, on her side of the tank.
Was watching her swim up, spit a few onto the glass, but some fell off and she would go down to the gravel pick them up and try to spit it onto the glass again.
This went on for ages, but the eggs she has, looks a lot less than she first started with.
If she brings them nearer the front of the tank i'll hopefully get a better count.

Not the best picture, but i find it hard to get a good picture at the back of a tank.
Female 1 is hovering level with the eggs, they are right in the corner of the tank.



Female 2 has a good batch of eggs, a bit more hidden than female 1, but got a picture with a torch.
It's early days for female 2, hopefully things will work out alright.

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

Very cool. Do you find that yours are very shy? My tank is heavily planted and I never see them come out. I know it probably doesnt help that they are on the bottom shelf of my rack..... Im probably going to add more dithers. I have 4 green neons in there now and cannot locate a source for more, so I will probably switch to standard neons.

 

[Andrew C]

Only got these fish a few weeks ago from Peter Lovett, a moderator on this forum, nice, plump, well fed fish, which gave me a great start with them.

They have not been shy since they went into the tank, always out in the open, more interested in each other than me looking into the tank.
Just before they started laying eggs, the male was starting to become a right bully, and he was fairly harassing the females, but now the tables are turned on him.

Female 2's eggs are gone, not sure if she has eaten them, or if she has moved them, but she dosen't look like she is guarding anything.
Female 1 is now under a piece of slate, and guarding it well, as to how many eggs she has, i'll have to wait and see.

 

[Peter Lovett1]

I had hoped to spawn them myself but as I did not have the time to give this fish the care that it really needs. I was more than happy to send them to you and it looks like if you keep going the way you are you you succeed in the end.

When I got the fish they where no more than half an inch in length took a good 3 month for them to start to show any signs of what sex they where and would say they have only been sexually mature for about 2 months so you have a long time to get thing right.

Keep up the good work

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

I think I may try two different setups then. Once mostly bare tank with some slate and stuff similar to yours, and one planted tank.

I remember the first year I had them they were always in the open, but this was in a mostly bare (there were some anubias) 10 gallon tank at waist level. Now they are constantly hiding and I really wish I could see what they are up to!

Edit: When feeding this morning I found a dead male. :-( This is the first loss I have had with these guys in the 1.5-2 years I have kept them. I didnt notice anything abnormal about the body. Didnt look beat up or sickly at all. I wonder what happened??

 

[Andrew C]

Sorry to hear about the male dying.
I don't know what might have caused this, maybe one of the more knowledgeable people here have an idea.

Female 1's and female 2's eggs are gone, the male is now bulling the two females again and out in the open, which wouldn't happen if any of the females had eggs.

I know these are young fish, does it usally take young Dicrossus a few attempts at spawing before they eventually get it right ?

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

If I remember correctly (ill try to dig up some old pics) my fem was slighly larger than yours appears now. I dont know for sure if her first spawn was a success or not, because I never even noticed anything 'till the fry were free swimming! Maybe you should try removing the extra female. Mine spawned with a single female and 5 males if you can believe that

 

[Peter Lovett1]

Well got back to day after a weeks holliday and guess what. I now have fry.

 

[Andrew C]

Peter
Well done, look forward to see pictures of the fry.

It's looking good with a third batch of eggs from one of my females.
They were laid on Monday, a few fungused, but she got rid of them, and now i can see what looks like, tails sticking out of the eggs that are left.
She isn't trying to move them and is guarding them well, so they must be healthy

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

Congrats!! Good luck and let us know what happens. Maybe it just takes them a few tries to get it right.

 

[Andrew C]

The female has finally figured it out and is being followed by a bunch of fry :biggrin:
There are a lot more than i imagined as it looked like a few fungused in the first couple of days.

 

[Andrew C]

Some better pictures after feeding newly hatched baby brine shrimp.

 

[Sir_BlackhOle]

All right! Nice shots! How are the other tankmates holding up? Mine would usually stay well clear of the cloud of fry due to moms aggression if they got too close. What are your plans for them? Going to leave them in the tank or pull them?

 

[Andrew C]

I moved the spare male & female into a another tank, as there was not enough room for the female & fry and a pair in that tank.
Once the female loses interest in the fry, i'll move her into the tank with the pair and leave the fry in the tank they are in and grow them on for the fish shop.