curviceps behavior

[rivendell_jw]

Ok ... I have a male and female curvicep. I've had them for about 4 months or longer. When I first added them things were fine. They looked happy and colors looked great!. They roamed my 75 gal tank and things were fine.

I added some rainbows in the tank and I had an outbreak of ick or something like it but it actually killed the rainbows .... the ick got on the curviceps but they responded to treatment. I have no idea what actually went through that tank ... It may have been a combination of things because the ick never really got that bad. I pulled the rainbows and treated them but to no avail.

However, before the rainbows died the curviceps were still doing fine and in the morning would lock jaws and looked like they might pair up. Suddenly the curviceps started acting very strange. The male would hide in the back on one side of the tank and he was pale. The female would hide under a leaf and would turn herself almost black.

When I feed them they come out and things are fine. An hour later , they are right back in their respective corners. This behaviour is still going on to this day. Now I mentioned the sickness and all because that ocurred during this transition. With the sickness I was doing a lot of water changes.

Originally I had been using R/O water in the tank before I got the curviceps but that was proving to be too difficult and too expensive. I had started topping off with tap water before I got the curviceps. So gradually I was probably removing the R/O water and replacing it with my tap water. The fish seemed fine. I was monitoring the ph and the other standard indicators. During that transistion the ph went from 7.5 to 8 over a month and a half. The hardness was gradually going up as well.

What I'm driving at here is what is going on with these curviceps and is it possible that I have something in my water supply (either by the water company supply or by something coming from internal plumbing) that is causing this change in behavior? Is this behavior the result of a relationship gone bad? Any thoughts at all?

I'm nervous about the water supply for obvious other reasons ... namely I drink the stuff but also because I was thinking of starting another tank for some African cichlids and was concerned that it would be futile if something was fundamentally wrong with my water.

Thanks in advance
John

 

[Neil]

rivendell_jw,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Although L. curviceps are fairly tolerant of most water conditions, they prefer softer water. The fact that your pH is now up to 8 is probably less improtant (but not helpful) than what your hardness is. If your tap water is very hard, the transition is probably no fun for your fish. They might just be more uncomfortable than anything else. Do you have a hardness test kit? If so, let us know what that value is.
Curviceps are also very shy fish and if they are not feeling really comfortable because of the water or something else, it would not be uncommon for them to act the way you describe. That black color is probably a stress response. I have seen the same type of behavior that you describe in apistos in hard, alkaline water. I would not count out the possibility of disease, but it is just as likely that they are no longer as happy as they were before.
I would not worry to much about your tap water, especially for yourself or African Cichlids, but you may want to consider changing it a little for the curviceps. There are numerous ways to do that inexpensively. Research the forum for info. in numerous discussions on this topic.
Neil

 

[Pat]

Just a thought ... were the rainbows the only other fish you had in that tank? Maybe they served as dithers for the curviceps, and now they're all alone. And scared? How about adding a few tetras or something?

It would serve two purposes, maybe: give the curviceps some dither company, and do a double-check on your tank conditions. If the tetras are okay, the water's probably okay.

I hope your curvs make it. They're really nice little fish.

-- Pat

 

[rivendell_jw]

Neil and Pat - Thanks for taking the time to reply and think about my problem. Regarding hardness .... this is what I was testing before going off of the r/o water: 7GH and 3KH. After the gradual change it went to 10GH and 3KH. Any thoughts on this?

Neil ,I just wanted to confirm that in your last paragraph you are suggesting doing a search for something like water quality and look for tips/suggestions on changing hardness?

Pat ... I do have other fish in there with them. A rather odd combination of tank mates ... a serpae tetra, 8 blood fins and couple of other tetras (?). The tetras are doing fairly well. The serpae is holding his red very nicely, although I will say that the bloodfins have lost a great deal of the red in their fins. There are also some plecos and a cory cat. Sorry I left those details out.

Yes I was enjoying the curviceps a great deal ... the male was showing great color and pretty much just enjoying the tank and the female looked to be doing as well. Then almost overnight the change happened. I may have just crossed a threshold for them.

Thanks for the kind welcome and responding to my issue.

John

 

[Randall]

Dear John,

Sorry to read about your curviceps. Their bizarre behavior could be due to a number of factors; but as Neil states, the recent change in water chemistry seems to be the most likely explanation. As Neil says, curviceps, although tolerant of a variety of water conditions, do prefer softer, slightly acidic water. Your Bloodfin tetras have probably lost their red color for the same reason.

I'm a little puzzled by a couple of things. You write that using R-O water is "too difficult and too expensive." Once the unit is purchased, what additional expense is there in its application? A mix of R-O filtered water and your hard(er) tap water would produce an ideal situation for your curviceps.

Now that you are using tap water only, you write that your GH level has climbed to 10 from 7, but your KH level has remained steady at 3. Is this accurate, please? If your KH has indeed remained constant, the pH, most likely, would remain constant as well and not climb to 8.0 from 7.5.

Thanks!

Randall Kohn

 

[rivendell_jw]

Randall - Thanks for your thoughts. Regarding the R/0 water, I was buying my r/o water from a local pet shop. I moved out of town from where this shop was and there wasn't a pet shop in my new town that had r/o water. I would pick it up at the shop where I originally had started getting it when I happened to be near that shop. So I decided to try without it.

My charts say that the KH had stayed the same. I will run the test again to see if that is really the case. I have been meaning to take a sample in to the pet shop to double check my results. I'll post the results after I retest.

So is the concensus looking like the hardness change along with the ph increase is causing the odd behavior?

Many thanks!
John

 

[Neil]

That is probably the best guess, since they are still eating fine and there are no other indications of disease, beside previous exposure. I really am not sure. Your hardness values really are not that bad. Might just take some time for them to adjust to the change.
You know that you can just buy RO water out of the machine at the market for about 15 cents a gallon! But, even then with a 75, it could still be cost prohibitive. For that size tank, you would be better off getting yourself a small RO unit for under $100. 10g/day would be more than enough for your tank and you would have nice water to drink for yourself.
Neil

 

[rivendell_jw]

So I can go to my nearest Kroger and get r/o water for .15/gallon? I've got two 5 gallon containers ... do I just take them in or do I use some containers that they have. I am working on an r/o solution for the house ... but in the meantime it would be good to get it for .15/gallon instead of .59.

I feel better about the problem just talking about it with other people.

Thanks
John

 

[Randall]

R/O Water

Dear John,

Neil and I are in perfect agreement, where investing in an R/O unit is concerned. Before purchasing one, I was spending a considerable amount of money each month to keep my fish in soft, acidic water. Since investing in an R/O unit, it has paid for itself many times over and is easy to use, saving me considerable time and effort as well. This is especially important to me, because now I can get back to enjoying my fish.

Should you decide to take the plunge, as it were, I would look into a 50-gallon per day or better unit. That way, you won't outgrow your unit's capacity so quickly, should you decide to set up more tanks at some point. When they're happy, our dwarf cichlids tend to produce fry that need to be properly housed.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[rivendell_jw]

Randall/Neil - Any recommendations on brands of r/o filters I should look at? Is that a safe topic to discus? What about in general things to look for? Perhaps that is a thread for another forum.


Do you think, in order to get things back to the way the curviceps were happy, I should do a big water change with r/o .... 40% or more or just do little ones over a longer period of time ... like 10%. I guess what I'm wondering is do you think it is urgent to get it back to the way it was?

Thanks
John

 

[Randall]

R/O Units et al.

Dear John,

Well, it is quite refreshing for me to have the opportunity to respond to a fellow hobbyist who benefits from the high level of concern with which you clearly possess!

From my experience, SpectraPure manufacters a quality R/O unit. I'd recommend buying a two canister unit with a built in pressure gauge. As for water changes with R/O water, starting off slow at first would minimize fish stress; say five parts R/O water to one part tap water per weekly water change, until the desired water chemistry is achieved. After that, an appropriate mix to preserve the optimum parameters.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[rivendell_jw]

Randall - I've been very busy with work and trying to get an afican cichlid tank setup. Just wanted to touch base and say thanks for the information on the r/o filter.

A guy a work with is thinking about getting one as well. He had been looking on ebay and located one that he felt would meet his needs what concerned me was there really didn't seem to be a brand associated with what he would be getting. This may be fine but do you have (or do any of you have) thoughts on this? Have any of you all purchased something like this and did it work out for you?

Randall, when you said two canister unit ... do you mean like two canisters that are storing the finished water or is that like a two stage filter? What does the pressure gauge do?

I have been trying to get some r/o water in that tank and must confess I haven't made the opportunity. However, I will say that the curviceps have started behaving a little better but still not normal. Tomorrow I'm going to check at my local grocery and see if I can pick up something there.

Has there been a discussion on the forum alread about r/o filters ... I don't want rehash a topic already discussed. I'll do a quick search.

As always thanks for the input.

- John

 

[Randall]

R/O Units

Dear John,

From what I understand, R/O unit quality can vary from brand to brand. I've always heard good things about SpectraPure and Kent, as far as manufacturers go. I'd be reluctant to purchase a costly R/O unit at Internet auction, sight unseen, for pretty obvious reasons.

By a two canister unit, I mean a system that consists of two separate casings (or canisters), one a prefilter and the other the membrane housing. The pressure gauge measures the level of water pressure at which the unit is operating in PSI. This is important because you want the unit to operate at optimum levels and not be overloaded.

On an immediate basis, why don't you perform your partial water changes with peat conditioned water, slowing softening and acidifying your curviceps' tank water? That will have pretty much the same effect as using an R/O unit.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[rivendell_jw]

Randall - I did a small water change this weekend and added some r/o water. I have another batch ready go for this coming weekend. I haven't done any testing yet because I didn't think that the amount I added would make a huge change. I think I put in 3 gallons and took out about 5 gallons. I'll probably do the same again and then see how things look with the water tests.

How would you go about peat conditioning your water? Do you add it to water while is sits prior to adding it to your tank ... like letting it steep (sp?) in some kind of mesh bag? Peat tea

I'm eager to see how the curviceps respond after this weekend. I'm kind of holding back on making any comments in their behavior right now because sometimes you want to see a change and I might convince myself that I am seeing one.

Thanks again...
John