CO2 System Request

[Randall]

To all you green thumbs,

Having successfully killed yet one more batch of beautiful and expensive plants in only four weeks, perhaps it's time for me to finally break down and invest in a CO2 system. Problem is, I don't know a regulator from a generator!

Does anyone have any suggestions on a system for we, the CO2 impaired? Texts and reference sources would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks for reading!

Randall Kohn

 

[farm41]

what do you have for lighting?

The best place to get started is always The Krib

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html


HTH

 

[ddaquaria]

i second farm41's suggestion. CO2 is an investment (unless you DIY) There are a lot more variables besides adding CO2 that could make your unhappy tank - happy again. For example: light, plants that you choose, fish that are housed with the plants, etc...

 

[Randall]

Lighting

Thanks for responding, guys,

The tank in question is a 65-gallon with 300 watts of high intensity lighting consisting of 2 55-watt pink (plant) bulbs and 2 55-watt white bulbs in one fixture, and 2 conventional 40-watt flourescent (plant) bulbs in the other fixture.

The substrate consists of Flourite with a Laterite base. I also use a substrate fertilizer with iron, in tablet form, periodically. 50% water changes are performed weekly using reconstituted RO water. This is a soft water fish tank with low hardness and a pH of about 6-6.5.

The plants are nothing unusual: Amazon Swords, lilies, Crypts and Crinum species mostly--all soft water type plants.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for your help.

Randall Kohn

 

[aspen]

yikes, you got light! yes, you should be running co2.

you can get a diy system going, or browse these products.

http://www.mops.on.ca/cgi-bin/SoftC...f84e584+-c+scstore.cfg+-f+0+-C+CO2 Components

you need a co2 tank, needle valve and a bubble counter, plus some way to get the co2 dissolved into the water, (diffuser). you could shut it down at night, but it is not 100% necessary. there are lots of places to get these things, and lots of different products which will do. lots of people i know have used mops and have enjoyed their professional serice.

what kind of filtration are you running. it is important that you aren't causing too much surface agitation. (canister, not sponge filter)

rick

 

[farm41]

your Kh will be very important in a co2 injected tank, can you keep it above 3? Any lower and you run the risk of Ph swings.

Plenty of light and a great substrate. Are you using this much light right now, without co2?

 

[Jim]

If you try the DIU method of CO2, you will need at least 2 reactors (bottles) feeding into one diffuser. You have a lot of light, 4.6 watts per gallon. That is a huge amount of light and probably a little overkill. If you can, try dropping it down to 3 to 3.5 watts per gallon.
If you can handle the cost of a pressurized CO2 system, around $250 to $300 that is really the way to go. It's much easier to control pH and get the right amount of carbon in the water.
Good Luck
Jim

 

[farm41]

"$250-$300" that is more than double what I paid for mine

• $60 5# co2 cylinder
  $50 regulator
  $20 needle valve
  $15 rio 600
  $10 diy reactor made from 2" pvc

 

[aspen]

oh yea, diy and heavy shopping will get you through co2 cheaper. imo, the exp part should be the regulator. lots of people have had problems with cheap regulators killing fish. i would also make sure that you have a pressure guage on both sides of the valve. the co2 regulator will act up when the bottle gets too low.

rick

 

[farm41]

Hey Aspen buddy, are you calling my regulator cheap? 8O I'm using 2 of these from the welding shop for more than a year and nothing but perfect pressure regulation.

IMO the needle valve is just as important as the regulator if not more so. If the equipment is setup properly, no fish will die.

 

[aspen]

inexpensive is not necessarily cheap, but you get what you pay for. there are plenty of posts from people who went the 'inexpensive' route, and had co2 dumps. i don't doubt that there may be better or cheaper places to buy co2 equipment, but the photos and descriptions on the mops pages are pretty good.

shopping for the best price would be prudent, as long as it is comparing apples for apples. just a few things to think about.

rick

 

[Randall]

Thanks all!

Thanks guys for all the good advise. I've got some homework to do here on CO2 systems.

Yes, farm41, I am running that much light (300 watts), and I still can't get some of the plants to grow. The 8 Rubin swords, for example, are yellowing and their leaves are disintigrating. And some of the other plants are not fairing much better.

I am concerned about pH bounce. This is a soft water tank with soft water fish, some of which are wild West Africans imported from Cameroon. Using CO2, are pH bouces common? Currently the KH is at about 1.5-2. Should the pH bounce, how much of a drop might one expect?

Thanks again, guys. Should anyone have any questions about dwarf cichlids, just ask!

Randall Kohn

 

[aspen]

randall, do you have any plecos in that tank? they aren't getting eaten are they?

plants yellowing spells fert (iron) deficiency, but if this is all happening in 4 or 5 weeks, i'm not sure about that. they should limp for a while before giving up the ghost. but you have fert covered right? co2 is definately a place to start, but there may be something else missing. how are the algae levels?

rick

 

[Randall]

Algae Levels

Dear Rick,

Yes, we have the dreaded and much feared HAIR ALGAE! AGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a couple of Flying Foxes in there, but they don't seem to be doing their job too well.

There is a pleco as well, but he is well fed. I don't think he is damaging the leaves, unless he's a night stalker.

I will try another round of fert. and see if that helps.

Thanks!

Randall Kohn

 

[farm41]

2 words for hair algea, 8-10 SAE's and co2

 

[farm41]

Thanks all!

I am concerned about pH bounce. This is a soft water tank with soft water fish, some of which are wild West Africans imported from Cameroon. Using CO2, are pH bouces common? Currently the KH is at about 1.5-2. Should the pH bounce, how much of a drop might one expect

A Ph swing will be greater with a low carbonate hardness, mine is negligible with a Kh of 6. Since I have never been lucky enough to have that soft of water I don't know how much the swing will be, I just know I have read warnings about a large Ph swing or even a crash.

 

[aspen]

randall, i would think it would be prudent to maintain a kh of 2 min, 3 would be better.

as for plecos, i have seen bushy nose plecos and common plecos decimate large leafed plants, no matter how much you are feeding zuchhini or other good things that they like. some just LOVE sword leaves, and your description is perfect. ie, leaves with large rasped through areas which turn into a brown mess. the leaves will not come back. they should be removed.

the best hair algae eater is the american flag fish. (ime)

rick

 

[farm41]

co2 chart

Take a few minutes and read the charts in this link. With what your reported Kh and Ph is, co2 could be high or most likely one or the other of the values isn't correct

 

[Randall]

SAEs

Dear Farm1,

Ugh! I hate SAEs! They grow up to be mean and aggressive, and I understand that the larger ones don't eat that much algae. Would American Flag fish be better? At least they would do better socially in my "dwarf" tank.

Thanks!

Randall Kohn

 

[aspen]

female aff's only would be ok. breeding pairs, or only males would be worse than sae's. they are NOT just molly's with a different 'coat'.

rick