can't find enough info on hongsloi

[kichibo]

hello, I'm new here, and was hoping to find some infomation. I'm not terribly new to fish, but am soon to make my first attempt at cichlids. I have a few questions first though, I'd like to have all my ducks in a row before I try it out.

I have a 90 gallon tank, and was planning on setting up a south american biotope, specifically Orinoco river. I'll first say how I plan to set it up.

90 gallon, heavily planted with regional plants, medium light and co2, as well as driftwood. Temp will stay around 79-81 degress. My tap gh is 8, kh 3, ph around 7, but I can confortably lower it, and plan to, to around 6.2 to 6.5. Substrate will be flourite base, with middle layer eco-complete or possibly just black pea gravel if I can't find eco-complete, with a top layer of Tahitian Moon Sand. There will also be rocks and multiple caves.

The fish will be 2 pairs blue rams, about 30 cardinals, 10-12 red phantom tetra, and I'm hoping, A. Hongsloi. I can't seem to find much specific info on them though, and they are the only apistos from the region I'm looking at.

Sorry if I babble off too many questions, but I'd like to do this right, I'd like the biotope to be as close to natural as possible.

1) Do hongsloi need to be in pairs or harems?
2) will they do alright with Rams and the other gentler fish? Are they aggressive or will they get beat up?
3)Will the above listed water parameters suit them?
4)how do I sex them?
5)I'm not up to speed on all the "type 1 or type 2" or variations or color type. I'm not really even sure what I'm talking about here. I would like to understand the different hongsloi available and if there is more to the difference besides color.

Any info on the hongsloi would be greatly appreciated, as well as any other advice on my setup. I will be taking the next several months to set the tank up, and plan to have it planted and balanced before I add any fish. I also plan to feed live foods as well as frozen, any feeding suggestions for the apistos and rams? Thanks

 

[blueblue]

Hi kichibo, good to learn that you want to establish a beautiful tank for
hongsloi and Rams. Hongsloi is one of my favourites these days as i am
working hard to develop more colorful F1 of it.
Right now, I have obtained three pairs from various sources, including the
renowned german fish, all with good colour.

For your questions, please find the replies as follows:
1. I myself keep some Hongsloi with one male three female... for your tak's setting, i guess you can keep a few pairs if you wish. But 1 male + 1 or more female is perfectly fine.
2. Hongsloi is NOT too aggresive. They can be kept with Rams and tetras.
3. Probably okay. If you want them to breed and enhance their colour, you may wish to lower the pH to around 6.
4. Pairing and breeding of Hongsloi is very very easy. Just put a mature male with a couple of female, providing them good hiding place for laying eggs... then you will see a lot of fries coming out. One remark is, if you want the F1 to look more beautiful, do not over-feed the fries... let the fries grow up at a normal speed...
5. Type I is not colorful... It looks very similar to the wild fish... For type II, it is more colourful,
There is one called Type II - super red, as its name implies, it is very red, and the way
to classify is to observe whether the fish's face is full of red pattern...

Type II (my fish)
http://aquariumfarm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20388

Type II - super red (my fish, super red from Germany,
which is also called "Type III" in Hong Kong and Taiwan)
http://www.aqugrass.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=53452
http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=3484

1) Do hongsloi need to be in pairs or harems?
2) will they do alright with Rams and the other gentler fish? Are they aggressive or will they get beat up?
3)Will the above listed water parameters suit them?
4)how do I sex them?
5)I'm not up to speed on all the "type 1 or type 2" or variations or color type. I'm not really even sure what I'm talking about here. I would like to understand the different hongsloi available and if there is more to the difference besides color.

 

[kichibo]

Thank you so much your quick reply I'm glad to know I can safely add them. I think a 1m/3 female will be perfect. Is there a way to disinguish male and female? And at what age will I be able to do so? Also, just curious, what does the F1 designation mean? I've seen it in several posts. Do you know of any way to get a ph of 6.0 with co2 injection? I know the driftwood will lower it some, but I don't think it will lower it significantly. I would prefer not to use any chemical additives if possible, they seem to complicate things. Sorry for so many questions, I hope I'm not being a pest. Thanks

 

[mummymonkey]

I'm breeding both A. honsloi and M. ramirezi at a pH of 7 without problems. I have some grow out tanks with both species in and the Rams are the more aggressive though nothing serious.

F1 means first filial, or generation. Usually taken to mean first generation from wild stock though more generally it can be the first generation from a cross of two different lines.

 

[blueblue]

Male has an elongated dorsal fins, usually have some red bands and patches.
Female is grey and yellow, with very little red in even the best quality female.
Moreover, female is usually smaller than male in the same batch of fish.

One way to lower pH is to use Peat Moss, Oak Leaves, blackish water, etc. These are all quite natural additives to lower pH. There is one point to note: If the water is not acidic enough, even the best quality German super Red Type II Hongsloi won't be as red as the ones you can find in books and my photos... it's a general observation that, acidicity of water affects the appearance of the fish, especially the red ones... Moreover, the fertilization rate and sex of fries also depend on pH... i used to use pH, temperature to affect the yield ^_^

Thank you so much your quick reply I'm glad to know I can safely add them. I think a 1m/3 female will be perfect. Is there a way to disinguish male and female? And at what age will I be able to do so? Also, just curious, what does the F1 designation mean? I've seen it in several posts. Do you know of any way to get a ph of 6.0 with co2 injection? I know the driftwood will lower it some, but I don't think it will lower it significantly. I would prefer not to use any chemical additives if possible, they seem to complicate things. Sorry for so many questions, I hope I'm not being a pest. Thanks

 

[kichibo]

excellent, I can't wait to set that tank up. I'm not sure about feeding them though. Right now my tropical communities get flake once daily, frozens like brine shrimp, blood worm, daphnia, and entre mixes. I also give them a few algae tabs with spirulina every few days or a week, as well as algae sheets every few weeks. I intend to keep live colonies of tubiflex and daphnia for the 90 gallon as well. Will these be suffient, or will I need other food for the a. hongsloi and rams?

 

[blueblue]

Well, the diet of your fish is very very rich already!! your fish are fortunate ^.^
For my apistos, i mainly use freshly hatched baby brine shrimps (i.e., bbs,
i have my DIY system for yielding bbs everyday for all my fish),
and staple food such as the ones from Tetra, Sera, and ADA.

Apistos, most of them are not too picky for food. I myself avoid using
blood worm to avoid internal parasites. Moreover, for Hognsloi, colour enhancing staple food, such as Tetra Bits, is quite needed to achieve the
best colouration of the fish. ^.^

excellent, I can't wait to set that tank up. I'm not sure about feeding them though. Right now my tropical communities get flake once daily, frozens like brine shrimp, blood worm, daphnia, and entre mixes. I also give them a few algae tabs with spirulina every few days or a week, as well as algae sheets every few weeks. I intend to keep live colonies of tubiflex and daphnia for the 90 gallon as well. Will these be suffient, or will I need other food for the a. hongsloi and rams?

 

[kray]

Blue,

Reference to your point on not over-feeding the fries and letting them to grow up at a normal speed, any guidance on what's the proper feeding frequency and normal growing speed? I had some Hongsloi fries before, they just grow so slowly!

 

[blueblue]

Blue,

Reference to your point on not over-feeding the fries and letting them to grow up at a normal speed, any guidance on what's the proper feeding frequency and normal growing speed? I had some Hongsloi fries before, they just grow so slowly!

my practice is: Starting from the 1st free-swimming day, I feed the fries twice a day on working days (and three to four times a day on holidays) with bbs for three weeks. Every time, i will see the belly of the fish expand to 80% of the fullest capacity and stop feeding. After this period of time, i will gradually switch to staple food. I usually feed the fish at this stage only once or twice a day... For the growth rate, hongsloi does not grow very rapidly, e.g., it is slower than aggie under the same feeding and living environment, but still faster than 2-bands(dip.).

Please observe that my method does NOT aim at pushing the fries grow up;
instead, i want to have a normal and steady rate of growth which also enhances the colour of the grown up fish...