Cannot find Bitaeniata females (Toronto Canada)

[Discus Man]

Hi all, I'm a regular on Age of Aquariums, new to Apistos.
Been keeping them 8 months now.
I bought pairs and have lost fish. I have been left with one female Borelli , mate is the male Bitaeniata. ( Thus the need for a female bit.)

Failures: Male Borelli died leaving just female.
Been through three male cacatoides, all died.
Three male agazizi- died.
See a pattern? I do. My males manage to spawn and it seems to be their final act. Only male that has lived is the male Bit ( 8 months old.)

Now a breeder told me my problem was trying to breed in a communityt tank. Corrected that... now have a trio of agazzizi in a 10g planted tank, lots of spawning behavoiur.

In the community tank the male Bit. and female Borelli have had two spawns. the Bit. seems fine. Should I get a female Bit.? or do I run the risk of my other problem of males passing on right after spawning?

If I do get a female, where do I find one in the Toronto area? willing to go from Kitchener area to Pickering.... if its wise to try in the community tank. If unwise, I will leave the ill fated pair and keep trying with the agazizi....

 

[Neil]

Discus Man,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Boy! That's quite a story. I suspect that your water is not the problem considering your screen name. Anyone who has kept apistos for any time at all, has lost some for no (apparent) good reason, but it sounds like you are particularly unlucky. Although breeding is a stressor and sometimes is the beginning to the end for some apisto, it is not always the male that dies. So I wouldn't give alot of weight to the "males breed, then die" thing. In the community setting there is always more variables to account for when you have a problem, so I think it was wise to go to a dedicated tank.
Are the fish that you are getting large adults? Are they wild-caught or tank-raised? Are you getting them from an LFS or a breeder? All of these factors could have a baring on what the problem is.
Bitaeniata breeding with a borellii, huh :? ?! That's a first by me. You are getting any viable fry, are you? 8O
I would see if you can locate a female bitaeniata or a male borellii. How about the place that you originally got the fish. Maybe aspen can help you out on where to find fish up there.
Until then, see if you can get some fry out of the aggies. I bet alot of this male dying thing is luck (unluck). But there is alot that could be going on. I just don't know.
Neil

 

[Discus Man]

thanks Neil

Are the fish that you are getting large adults?

Bitaeniata breeding with a borellii, huh :? ?! That's a first by me. You are getting any viable fry, are you?

No, eggs turn white pretty quick.

I was buying from the LFS in Burlington - all juveniles. The agazizzi are from a breeder named Charlie Drew. Excellent fish. Others? don't know the source.
My problem seems to be the males aggression to other fish. The fights are legendary and they seem to get bacterial infections in their gut.
They quit eating and I lose them in a week or two.
When I swithced the agazzizi to their own tank I haven't lost anymore.

Its left me with quite a few odd fish out. In the community tank I have all my odd balls. Male Bit, female Borelli, two female cacatoides. My Discus roam the top of the tank with cardinal tetras, trio of peacock gudgeon, and two sae.

The exception to losing males is the male Bit. The LFS only had males. bout 50 males...
I bought one 8 months ago and he is huge, bout 4 inches, and has been a great little fish.... I cannot seem to find any females anywhere....

As for the Borelli, I would get another male but I am not sure the Bit. would tolerate it and that means another tank and that means a p!$ off wife.... don't want to go there yet! I need to know if its wise to play in the community tank and try a male borelli or a female bit. or leave things alone there... opinions?

 

[aspen]

hi discus man, rick from toronto here. i'm a discus guy too, but keep some dwarfs as well. try phoning aquarium services in mississauga, 905-276-6900 and asking what they have in stock. (ask for the fish room) i believe they get their new stock in on wed.

presently they have wild apisto aggassizzi's, a few a. viejita's some a. nissenji's and some 'new in' young a. cacatoides, which looked pretty good, and some 'wild caught colombian apisto's', which i can't id any better than they could. nope, i didn't buy any of those. he he.

BUT while i was there on sunday, i did catch a glimpse of a pair of young domestic aggies in a tank with some other fish, who were guarding eggs, so guess what i bought...

i have had some of mine die, and yes, i also have a female borelli. the male did not fare well with my male viejita. (who went to
fishy heaven for causing TOO much trouble.)

the store is on dundas just east of cawthra, and has the best selection of apisto's i know of around here. they are right down the street from you.

i always treat for exernal parasites when in quarentine when i buy from that store. otherwise, ick comes to my house. bu when i do, i don't seem to have any other problems. they will take trade-ins too. that might be a solution for more than one of your 'problems'. ask before you bring them in.

good luck, rick

 

[Discus Man]

thanks Rick

I've been there before... also to Dragon aquarium next door. Odd little place. Didn't realize that Aquarium Services carried Apistos. Only ever seen the rams in there. DO you know where the Domestic aggies came from? I ask because Charlie Drew has been selling his off and I got some of his recently in Burlington. Would only make sense he went a 1/2 hour farther.... Drew's aggies have quite a round tail, fair amount of red, and the heads of his fish tend to be pointy, sometimes his males have a bit of a dent to the forehead.

P.S. last I saw you were growing out a ton of little Discus... how did that go?

 

[Bissot_J]

hi discus man, rick from toronto here.

Hi Rick

i always treat for exernal parasites when in quarentine when i buy from that store. otherwise, ick comes to my house. bu when i do, i don't seem to have any other problems. they will take trade-ins too. that might be a solution for more than one of your 'problems'. ask before you bring them in.

good luck, rick

which treatement do you use.
i always put my fish in quarantine (40 days) but always scare to do preventive treatement.
and most of the time , didn't really know if it is luck or not
the fish breed in the quarantine tank :?
i really dont like that.

B.

 

[aspen]

>>DO you know where the Domestic aggies came from?

sorry, no. these were hidden in a ank of other assorted fish, leftovers. but prettty nice and healthy.

>>last I saw you were growing out a ton of little Discus... how did that go?

great!! i got 11 left, from 60 tiny guys, from pea sized to baby fingernail sized 14- 21 days old. they just reached 8 months of age, and are 3 1/2" to 5", plus tail. i have 11 of those left, plus 2 red turks left from another batch. this last batch are a cross from a gold pidgeon/snakeskin, with a king cobra. almost no 2 the same, but some nice fish. and all clean genetically, as there is a lot of crossing. so breeding siblings will be no problem. i'm not getting any more discus. the next ones i'll hatch myself.

b. actually i only do preventative treatments when i buy from 1 store, cause i KNOW i'm likely going to get ick, like i have 3 times now from the same store. i use 'quickcure', for a 3 day treatment. 1 drop per gal. and i don't bother putting any filter media in or feed much, till this is finished, just in case they don't live the 3 days, which has happened. i don't want to waste my good filter media on fish which may die mysteriously and i have to bleach it. i also de-worm all of my fish periodically, with panacur. warm water fish often get worms.

meds administered properly are not a problem. most fish that die under medication are either not medicated properly, or were going to die anyway. otherwise healthy fish can easily handle anti-parasitic meds. use bubbles of some kind (air stone or sponge filter, etc) when using formalin based meds.

he he, fish that breed when in quarentine rule! i have had successful hatches this way. nothing wrong with that, if they are healthy.

hth, rick

 

[Bissot_J]

b. actually i only do preventative treatments when i buy from 1 store, cause i KNOW i'm likely going to get ick, like i have 3 times now from the same store. i use 'quickcure', for a 3 day treatment. 1 drop per gal. and i don't bother putting any filter media in or feed much, till this is finished, just in case they don't live the 3 days, which has happened. i don't want to waste my good filter media on fish which may die mysteriously and i have to bleach it.

ok i understand

i also de-worm all of my fish periodically, with panacur. warm water fish often get worms.

ok you use panacur
good to know

meds administered properly are not a problem. most fish that die under medication are either not medicated properly, or were going to die anyway. otherwise healthy fish can easily handle anti-parasitic meds. use bubbles of some kind (air stone or sponge filter, etc) when using formalin based meds.

totally agree

he he, fish that breed when in quarentine rule! i have had successful hatches this way. nothing wrong with that, if they are healthy.

yes but the problem is you cannot give any medication at this time

regards,

B.

 

[aspen]

>>yes but the problem is you cannot give any medication at this time

not true! many people treat their eggs with formalin and/or methylene blue to keep the bacteria levels low in the tank. if you happen to be treating with quickcure (formalin and methylene blue) then there should be no difference, except that what you WERE trying to accomplish, just happened to affect something else, in a positive way. imo, as long as the eggs are fertilised, the meds will not harm the eggs or wrigglers. i have treated 12 day old discus fry with potassium permanganate for flukes, as i had 1 die. all fish lived and grew out.

the trick is of course, to have healthy fish, and to keep them that way. while we are not veterinarians, there are things that we can do to keep our fish healthy. exp people know the methods, and use them when appropriate.

the other side of the coin is, that when we bring in new fish to our own tanks, which we may have a ton of time and money sunk into, we do not want any unexpected visitors. esp when we are buying wild caught fish, is that IF they have not been treated for parasites, they will have them. period. and you have to know what to do.

rick