Callumanus (worms)

[michelle]

Hi there,

Quite new to the forum, but have a problem with my tanks. I have an outbreak of callumanus (worms) with my german blue ram. I have treated the tank and also the tank that he came from (my rio 125) with flubendazole. This is my second outbreak in 6 weeks, losing 8 fish last time

I noticed this on Monday and treated it first thing tuesday morning. I have feed boiled peas dipped in garlic oil for three days running in an attempt for the fish to pas any dead worms.

My blue ram has what looks like a dead worm hanging out of him (approx 1/2 cm). and plan on feeding the fish blood worm this evening in an attempt to get them to pass any dead worms remaining in the fish. I have stopped adding any plant ferts or easycarbo to the two tanks in question in case it has an effect on the medication.

Any help and advice would be most appreciated.

Michelle

 

[tjudy]

I think that you are doing all you can. When the worm infestation gets to a point where there are several emerging from the vent the problem is very advanced. You may not save those fish that are so severly infested. What you want to do is prevent the worms from attacking other fish in the tank. The meds you are using will work, but take some time. They will work better if you can move the fish to a bare quarantine tank and medicate them there. That way you can also remove any feces the fish may pass, which will be loaded with worm eggs (cysts...? I am not 100% sure of the parasites life cycle). If you cannot move the fish, continue to medicate in the main tank and gravel sweep thoroughly as often as possible.

 

[michelle]

Thank you for your response.

I plan to redose after 7 days, so hopefully I will kill off any eggs that actually reach maturity. Following this I plan to vacuum as well as I can. - Typical, i have just got this tank planted and looking nice and green.

michelle

 

[Mike Wise]

This shows the value of a simple quarantine tank. In my fishroom, no new fish goes into a breeding (or community) tank without quarantining the fish for at least 4 weeks.

 

[michelle]

Hi Mike.

I got these Rams back in March, and can only assume they got it from my apistogrammas when I tried using peat soaked rainwater and I had them for four months prior to their outbreak. I was advised that boiling rainwater would not remove all pathagens. So that might be where I went wrong.

Bad luck on my part I guess.

Michelle

 

[michelle]

Up date on Callumanus - Ram

My ram which I have treated with flubendazole is still alive. The first worm appeared on 16th June and although he looks thin, he is still active and feeding as normal.

One of the pencil fish is now affected and its getting me down a bit. Lots of ups and downs to fishkeeping and I guess this is just a period of 'down' at the moment. I have given three lots of consecutive treatment to this tank. Remedicating after five days rather than 7.

There have been no adverse effects on the fish or shrimp that I have in this tank, but then again, the worms have not been killed either.

Time and patience is required I guess.

Michelle

 

[dw1305]

RE Camallanus

Hi all,
I had an outbreak of Camallanus, which affected both a pair of Apistogramma "Blue Steel" and the dithers.
The fish had been in the tank for several months when they first showed symptoms, and I am fairly sure that it was introduced with the Apistogrammas (Thought to have been Czech bred, and a female amongst hundreds of males).

I'm in the UK and I treated with 15% Flubenol, before it became unavailable.
Two treatments had little or no effect, and I eventually euthanaised the dwarf cichlids.

After this I found that Levimasole was available in the UK to treat cage birds as "Harka Verm". The remaining dithers (H. hebertaxelrodii) I treated with "Harka Verm", the results were extremely surprising in that they voided there nematodes very quickly and remain a year later both healthy and un-parasitised.

My assumption would be that Fliubenol is not effective against all populations of Camallanus. One long lasting effect of the Flubenol has been that the tank I treated remains inhospitable to snails despite a "fairly thorough" clean. (I'm a biologist so I appreciate how difficult a "very thorough" clean is)

cheers Darrel

 

[michelle]

Hi Darrel,

Thanks for your reply. I don't know whether you have read the whole thread,
so this is my second outbreak. The first was in the same tank and I cleaned it out and changed the substrate from medium sized shingle to a so called 'inert' sand purchased locally (which I now doubt is inert as I am having trouble with rising pH!!).

So Darrel, the burning question is will my vet give me this medication without seeing the fish. Unfortunately during my last outbreak he was on holiday and the locum would not prescribe me flubendazole without seeing the fish incase he killed it. (I have been with the same vet for 27 years) - bad luck on my part - again I guess.:frown:

I do live in the UK. Did you take your fish to the vet, pretend you had a caged bird or what. Really dont feel like taking my very thin ram on a 20 minute car journey to then wait in the waiting room for 15 mins to be examined and then return. Got a feeling he may be dead following this adventure.

Harka verm - is this readily available anywhere - I'm guessing from a vet.

Perhaps I will PM you.

Thanks,
Michelle

 

[fishgeek]

callamunus has a a complex life cycle using inveterbrates as the intermediate host, for this reason it has been suggested that it isn't likely to be a huge problem in aquarium fish
some research has more recently shown that it can have a few direct lifecycle generations and so pass from fish to fish


the repeat dosing with medications will not be more effective when repeated more regularly
it needs to be done so that any eggs can hatch and tissue stage worms can develop to adult/or intestinal bound worms, this is often suggested as 2 weeks in mammalian worms

i have used levamisol, i think the previous post suggest it is available as a bird wormer, take care that it doesn't have sugar or a carbohydrate in to increase palatability as this will encourage bacterial blooms in the water and reduce dissolved oxygen

most bird wormers are available over the counter

i have also used fenbendazol in the a palatable dog wormer form, looks a bit like a stock cube and my fish eat it directly when crumbled in the tank... not so useful when fish severely affected and not eating

what dosing are you using?
levamisol 1-2mgs/l as permanent bath

fenbendazol 50mgs/kg orally

andrew

 

[michelle]

Thank you Andrew,

I was recommended a discus dewormer by someone on another site.

The instructions are one level spoonful (which came with the powder) mixed with warm water to dissolve. I put it in 500mls and slowly poured this into the tanks - different amounts for the two different sized tanks. It said I only need to do one treatment and only repeat dose if the infestation was 'heavy' . Confused with what 'heavy' may mean. Did redose after five days as can still see worms hanging out. Not sure if these are the same few that I see or many that have fallen out. Fish is thin so I doubt that he has room for 'many'. Although they do not move, unfortunately, they have a healthy red colour to them.

It says that the powder is flubendazol. I feel confident enough to handle this fish. Would I mix the powder up and use the dropper that comes with test kits. Although my ram may be large enough, my pencil fish is not.

I have tried to buy fenbendazol as a dog wormer before, but none of my shops locally (or not so locally as I have found out) sell it on their pet section.

When you say - bath, do you mean added to tank.

If I can't get the bird wormer, I am seriously considering euthanaising the whole tank of two rams and five pencils - depressing thought but there you go - and that will be a quick sharp bang on the head with a house brick. Thought about other suggestions, such as freezer but think that the brick method might be kinder somehow.

Michelle

 

[Mud Pie Mama]

Michele,

Callumanus worms are very treatable. The BEST online info I found in treating these worms in fish is at Loaches.com: http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

This is a very indepth article w/ many examples of sourcing the medication needed, including in the UK. And very helpful, clear info how to calculate acurate dosing levels.

Healthy fish can tolerate a level of these worms before succumbing to the infection. Even if it takes up to a week to obtain the required medicine, you would most likely still be able to save all except the most severely infected.

P.S.: Clove Oil is much better than BRICKS! I would be way too nervous; I'm sure I'd miss!

 

[michelle]

Hi Mud Pie Mama,

Do I sound like I'm getting desperate or what? Thank you so much for the article - boy it was long, but many parts plain and simple english and easy to understand. Thanks will try the bird dewormer as mentioned in previous post.
I'm sure my own vet will be able to help me (providing he's not on holiday again) this time round.

So the next question is - what do I do with the clove oil? Hum interesting.

Thanks again,
Michelle

 

[dw1305]

Harka Verm

Hi Michelle,
Harka verm was/is available via the internet without a vet.
I'm not sure what the legal position is from a vet, my understanding is that it has to be an "on label listing", which basically means the drug developer has to test that a product performs a effectively and then pay a fee to have added to the label.
cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

RE Cammallanus and Loaches online article

I've just read the suggested article from "Loaches on-line"
Very good and useful.
Darrel

 

[michelle]

Rams

Hi there,

Well my rams lived long enough to rid themselves of the worms, but unfortunately they both became paper thin and died mid July. I guess the worms must have taken their toll on the intestines of the fish.:frown: But thanks for all the help and information.
Michelle

 

[jose_vogel]

Michelle, what treatment did you give them?

 

[Travis_Conklin]

That article at Loaches online is the greatest article I have read on the subject. After reading it, I have been over dosing my fish like you would not believe. It has been a great deal of time since I have had to go thru the whole ordeal of (Callumanus worms) but it is great to find an article which holds your hand thru the dosage part. Thanks dw1305 for pointing out that site. I am a true believer in Levamisole it has worked for me each time I have encountered Callumanus worms.

 

[michelle]

Discus Dewormer

Sorry for the delay, just caught up with this thread.

Here is a link for the dewormer I used. This contains flubendazole. Think I will try with the levamisole though next time as I lost both rams and six dither fish with the second outbreak.

Hope you find it useful.
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1764


Michelle