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Cacatuoides fry alert - please advise

Miss ATV

Member
Hello everyone,

So turns out my lovely little Cacatuoides pair's spawn was successful because I can see the female out with the tiniest little fry today. I had given up on them as it has been over 8 days since she spawned today being the 9th one and so I am quite taken by surprise. My water parameters alone PH 7.8 GH 16 KH 12, and with nitrates of around 40ppm from the tap made me think even if they will keep spawning they won't be ever be successful. :oops: I have done a massive water change yesterday and redecorated a bit the tank and she was out hungry and curious, was actually ready to take her chosen "cave" as I am not a fan of that ornament. Thank god I didn't do it!

Anyway, here I am with fry. Experience almost 0 with Apistogramma and 0 with raising fry of any fish.

Must I feed the fry today? I have some frozen cyclops would that help? Do I need to run to the store and buy anything specifically?

Can I carry on doing normal water changes every 3 days or should I do more often?

I don't have the luxury of removing the male as the only other tank I have is a 5 gal with pigmy corys in, but so far the female is quite friendly with the male still showing her belly to him every time she sees him even near the fry. Don't know what that means but there are 0 signs of aggressiveness so far so I am not very worried.


If there is anything I should keep an eye for please let me know I would appreciate any kind of advice relating the fry and how to hopefully help them grow until they are big enough to give away. Which is by the time after how long?

TIA
 

Andreas

Member
Do you intend to raise the fry in that tank
from what I have read I wouldn’t but mike said he has seen fry grow to sexual maturity in the parents tank but not often
Just saying I am also a newbie
 

Miss ATV

Member
Do you intend to raise the fry in that tank
from what I have read I wouldn’t but mike said he has seen fry grow to sexual maturity in the parents tank but not often
Just saying I am also a newbie

Hey Andreas, they will have to grow in this tank as I don't have any other tank to put them in, I have a 5 gal with 9 pigmy corys but I dont think thats suitable...there is plenty of hiding spaces ij this one they are now so hopefully a few survive until I can find them new homes.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Yes, feed the fry from day one freeswimming. Your cyclops will help some survive, along with what your tank naturally provides. Still, it is not the best diet for growing fry. Apisto fry orient toward moving food, which means live foods. Do you absolutely need it? No, but don't expect a high rate of survival. As the fry grow they will pollute the water in your tank more. You will need to make more frequent water change. Depending on the number of fry that survive and the size of your tank you might need to make daily water changes.

Your female's behavior toward your male is typical for brooding females. Basically, she is saying, "stay away from the fry; you are attracting predators to the brood territory". Keep an eye on them. Things can change from warnings to mayhem quite quickly. Good luck.
 

Miss ATV

Member
Yes, feed the fry from day one freeswimming. Your cyclops will help some survive, along with what your tank naturally provides. Still, it is not the best diet for growing fry. Apisto fry orient toward moving food, which means live foods. Do you absolutely need it? No, but don't expect a high rate of survival. As the fry grow they will pollute the water in your tank more. You will need to make more frequent water change. Depending on the number of fry that survive and the size of your tank you might need to make daily water changes.

Your female's behavior toward your male is typical for brooding females. Basically, she is saying, "stay away from the fry; you are attracting predators to the brood territory". Keep an eye on them. Things can change from warnings to mayhem quite quickly. Good luck.

Thanks Mike,

I went ahead and ordered some bs eggs and an air pump so I will attept at dyi hatchery tomorrow. I gave some cyclops today which went flying all over the tank (caused by the filter current) when I squeezed them out of the pipette and some curious fry nibbling them, but parents dont allow them to venture too much and they crazily attacked my pipette when I gave the food. Really appreciate the advice.
 

yukondog

Active Member
BBS are one of the easiest foods to hatch, like Mike said watch the parents, it can go from great to homicidal real fast.
I may have missed it but what size tank?
 

Miss ATV

Member
Turn off your overly powerful filter when feeding. It will be fine for a short time (1 - 2 hours if necessary).

Thanks Mike that went a lot better 2nd time without the filter on.
BBS are one of the easiest foods to hatch, like Mike said watch the parents, it can go from great to homicidal real fast.
I may have missed it but what size tank?

Yeah I saw theres tons of videos online and everyone seems to get a good result so looking forward for the eggs and and pump to arrive today. What do I do with the freshly hatched leftover bbs can I keep in the fridge 24 hrs?

The tank is 64L, 60 x 45 x 30 cm and it's them with 2 snails in it. So far all good still been watching them and both parents are very involved into looking after/moving the fry around the tank without bickering so fingers crossed.
 

Attachments

Miss ATV

Member
If given enough surface area for gas exchange (shallow container) BBS will stay alive for 3 days in the fridge. I use petri dishes or tissue culture flasks for this purpose.

That's ideal then, I will order some petri dishes from ebay and try to keep them alive 3 days then. They've been "incubating" now for about 19hrs still no signs of hatching and I just read they do well in warm temperatures...mines are at room temp which is about 22 Celsius so might take longer.
 

lexi

Member
Congrats on your fry!! Keep us posted on how it goes. <3

If it's an option at all financially and you have a Petco near you, they are doing their dollar per gallon sale. I just picked up a 10g and a 20 long for only 30$ total! I have all the bits and pieces of equipment floating around for them already, but set up can be done relatively cheap.

Filtration is the most expensive part. Sponge filter off amazon for 6 -12 bucks depending on style and a low grade pump for 15 or 20 would be a perfect set up for a 10g imo.

Boil and sift a few cups of sand from the local creek for substrate and grab some twigs and bits of driftwood while there. If it's at least around 70 in your house you wouldnt need a heater. that way the fry could grow out in your current tank and youd have a spot for the parents. Totally understand how sometimes even 10 or 20 bucks is too much to spend though.
 

Miss ATV

Member
Congrats on your fry!! Keep us posted on how it goes. <3

If it's an option at all financially and you have a Petco near you, they are doing their dollar per gallon sale. I just picked up a 10g and a 20 long for only 30$ total! I have all the bits and pieces of equipment floating around for them already, but set up can be done relatively cheap.

Filtration is the most expensive part. Sponge filter off amazon for 6 -12 bucks depending on style and a low grade pump for 15 or 20 would be a perfect set up for a 10g imo.

Boil and sift a few cups of sand from the local creek for substrate and grab some twigs and bits of driftwood while there. If it's at least around 70 in your house you wouldnt need a heater. that way the fry could grow out in your current tank and youd have a spot for the parents. Totally understand how sometimes even 10 or 20 bucks is too much to spend though.

Hey Lexi! My gosh without you mentioning the fry getting picked up by parents in their mouth I would have thought few get eaten every minute.

All is good so far the dad is so involved actually he is obsessed with the fry not even coming to my feeding. I can see the parents all obsessing over the filter positioning themselves between the filter and the fry and protecting them...best thing to watch. I have about 50 fry swimming around? I wonder if I keep feeding bbs twice daily and changing 30% water every 3 days how many will survive. Whats a normal survive rate, whats low...etc.

The main issue is space for me as I live in a tiny flat, already have 2 tanks and a massive parrot cage and my partner feels they completely took over(okay they did:D). Saying that I have convinced him to allow me a grow out tank for the fry and for future fry so I will look on ebay for some cheap options. I have a spare filter already, so will just hunt for a tank. I am based in London UK so the prices here are hugely different, on Amazon for ex the cheapest tank I could get 40L=8.7 gallons is abour £54=67$ and doesnt have a lid! (I am always paranoid about lids since I found my puffer a crisp on the carpet once)

Ebay seems to be a good option with collection locally which we can drive to, so I am keeping an eye out. Alternatively few transport containers with sponge filters maybe and I will forcefully grow these fry out:cool:
 

yukondog

Active Member
A cheaper route might be to get a storage type tub from [walmart?] or some local store. You already have a filter, through in some sand, a few plants and hang a light above it and you have a tank, grated you may not be able to see in it from the sides but you still have a grow out tank.
 

Miss ATV

Member
A cheaper route might be to get a storage type tub from [walmart?] or some local store. You already have a filter, through in some sand, a few plants and hang a light above it and you have a tank, grated you may not be able to see in it from the sides but you still have a grow out tank.

Is it necessary for me to have a light? I am thinking to get a simple aquarium cube and I have a corner in the kitchen on the counter where I could place it without being intruding. The kitchen has the sun on it up until about 2pm and then we have some led's running around the counter. Led light won't fall exactly on the tank but just enough to illuminate the fish to see around and for us to see them. Do you think they'll be okay with just natural light and the indirect led's, plants I can add some java fern and amazon frogbit if they would survive?
 

Miss ATV

Member
Hi all,

I wanted to provide you with an update and to thank you for helping me with the fry and other numerous noobie questions.

The six fry which have survived the ammonia spike caused by me overfeeding & a dieying filter have grown and are now over 2 months, starting to colour up. I believe there are 4 males and 2 females but strangely the females are the larger ones. They are eating brine shrimp and bickering with each other but still stay as a group. It's just them in the 64L and once they're big enough I will start to look for new homes for them.

Their father is now in a 70L new setup on his own, looking to find some other community fish (anything but tetras ) but I am still not decided maybe just 3 -4 panda corys and 1 male agassizii. Plenty of choices he seems pretty chilled.

I have been looking around for some books in english to read about south american dwarf cichlids and really there isnt much. Its such a shame, I would love to read more about their behaviour but very little is mentioned in the generic tropical fish books. Actually in some books I didnt even find Apistogramma cacatuoides mentioned at all lol. Please people hurry up and write some books!

Thank you again for helping me, and being patient. Any suggestions are welcome, I have attached some photos for you of the grown fry and their papa.
 

Attachments

lexi

Member
Hi all,

I wanted to provide you with an update and to thank you for helping me with the fry and other numerous noobie questions.

The six fry which have survived the ammonia spike caused by me overfeeding & a dieying filter have grown and are now over 2 months, starting to colour up. I believe there are 4 males and 2 females but strangely the females are the larger ones. They are eating brine shrimp and bickering with each other but still stay as a group. It's just them in the 64L and once they're big enough I will start to look for new homes for them.

Their father is now in a 70L new setup on his own, looking to find some other community fish (anything but tetras ) but I am still not decided maybe just 3 -4 panda corys and 1 male agassizii. Plenty of choices he seems pretty chilled.

I have been looking around for some books in english to read about south american dwarf cichlids and really there isnt much. Its such a shame, I would love to read more about their behaviour but very little is mentioned in the generic tropical fish books. Actually in some books I didnt even find Apistogramma cacatuoides mentioned at all lol. Please people hurry up and write some books!

Thank you again for helping me, and being patient. Any suggestions are welcome, I have attached some photos for you of the grown fry and their papa.
When I first started asking questions earlier this year, I was told of some excellent resource books. I haven't had the funds for them but I will try to find the post and copy past the info back here. Also, Tom's website is a wealth of info too.
 
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