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Bolivian rams

mordor

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5 Year Member
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138
Location
San Jose, CA
I have got them for 6 months. They grow quite slowly. When I got them they were about 2 inches now maybe 2 1/2. I got problems with sexing them, they are more or less same size, they keep fighting each other. I lost hope that i got pair among them. I have heard that they need more time to mature than other dwarfs.
 

Neil

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1,583
Location
Sacramento, Ca.
mordor,
I have not worked with Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosa) before, but I do know that they are very hard to sex. Don't give up hope though, because they can get pretty big, so 2.5 inches might just be leading into their sexual maturity. Hopefully, someone else can give you more valuable information than I have.
 

mordor

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
138
Location
San Jose, CA
Neil,

Mergus Cichlid Atlas is amazing book. I just read that Bolivians grow very slowly and need 2 years to achieve sexual maturity. I can really tell that my fish really grow extremaly slow in comparizon to apistos. On the same food apistos are 2-3 times bigger while bolivians gained maybe 1 cm which would be 1/4 of their original size.
 

mordor

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
138
Location
San Jose, CA
I almost give up hope for these 4 four guys. Three must be males and one stopped growing but it is quite harrased by others. Even if this one is female it may not survive hostility of tankmates.
 

Cichlids1

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5 Year Member
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240
Location
Central Ohio
Well, this confirms what I've read and heard. Guess I shouldn't be too anxious since my 8 month old group of 10 haven't started showing any pairing activities...patience is not one of my strongest characteristics. :D
 

BristolCichlids

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5 Year Member
Messages
10
Location
Levittown, PA
I have almost the same problem with mine! I saw them in a fish store with eggs on the bottom of the glass when they were just under 2 inches. I have had them for 6 months since then, with no spawns! I even picked up another female hoping to spark something but nothing happened. They are all now 2.5 inches long and in a Eclipse12 on my desk at work. The male stays in a ceramic tube in the middle of the tank & one female hides in the ceramic cave on the right side of the tank & the other stays in a small flower pot to the left side of the tank. After every feeding they start head butting and locking lips with the male but lasts for about 10 minutes then he loses interest. I have dropped the temperature during water changes, fed them frozen, live & flake foods hoping to spark them but nothing happens. PH & Hardness is the same as when they were in the LFS tank. I am thinking about bringing in some RO water and softening it and lowering the pH. The ph is 6.6 and med hardness. Any ideas would be great help!
 

mordor

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
138
Location
San Jose, CA
I got my group for about 9 months, biggest is 2.5". I still cannot tell sex exactly, I might have 2-3 males and 1-2 females. My water is very soft with neutral pH. They grow very slowly, no changes in coloration. Only when stressed they get darker. Fights are regular but not dangerous.
 

BristolCichlids

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5 Year Member
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10
Location
Levittown, PA
My male is darker in coloring sort of blueish tint to him. His fins are pointier & longer than the other 2 & the females tubes are fatter and rounder than his. That is the easiest way to tell! Catch them in a net and turn them over.
 

BristolCichlids

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
10
Location
Levittown, PA
If you check out this link http://www.petsforum.com/cichlidroom/articles/a031.html to the CichlidRoom Companion there is an article by Lee Newman on them. He doesn't mention how to sex them, however he has some great pics of them! My male looks exactly like the one in the first picture with the blue in him & my females look just like the one in the first pic under the Breeding section. Notice how much pointier the males top & bottom fins are. Hope this helps!
 

mordor

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5 Year Member
Messages
138
Location
San Jose, CA
S**t, one of them was beaten by all others. It was lying in corner of tank and comming only when food was served. I put it in empty quarantine tank. It happens all the time no mater what I got 3 left. This is third time, initially I started with six, 3 left, I added two - 3 left, then I added one.
 

Cichlids1

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5 Year Member
Messages
240
Location
Central Ohio
Well, What can I say. I have what I believe to be a pair in a planted 20g tank. They get pampered, fed all the "Special" foods, water conditions just right, etc. I also have 6 more in a 55g bare bottom tank. I use this tank as a growout. It has a few dozen Nanacara anomala, Badis badis, and Pelv. t. "Moliwe". Nothing special. Regular water changes, with tap water, flake food, a little java moss to help the AC200 filter that is surely overloaded. Look what I just found in that 55g tank:

http://www.iwaynet.net/~ken1/fish_pics/new_pics/bolivian_eggs.JPG

In spite of all my best attempts to keep them miserable, they go and do that! As for bolivian rams being rather whimpy, I must say she is showing no fear when taking on Male Moliwe that are easily twice her size. She has the other fish leaving her about a 4" buffer area and she's only laid these in the last 2 hrs or so.
 

Neil

New Member
Messages
1,583
Location
Sacramento, Ca.
The methods for sexing Microphagus ramerizi, probably have less effect in sexing the much more non-dimorphic species, Microphagus Altispinosa. Although, I have noticed some difference on the lateral spot of the Bolivian Ram (much like ramerizi, but to a lesser degree) I think that the best bet is to grow out or obtain sexually mature specimens and observe their behaviors. There is also mention of the fact that males will develop slightly more extended filamented rays on the fins, as BristolCichlids suggests. Many times, the belly of the female will have the appearance of a "cleaner" of more solid look over a larger area. I have not, however, turned them over- so I can't speak to that. None of these methods are entirely accurate and, as Cichlids1 found out, that the female is the one that layed the eggs on the bottom of his tank and is gaurding and fanning them. It is as easy as that :? . Neil
 
J

jimmy

Guest
When mature, males have longer fins and are more streamlined. Females are bulkier and have short fins. These fish do take a while to form pairs. The best way to see what you have to work with and get a pair is to give them lots of live/frozen food and a clean tank often and provide soft, acidic water.
 

mordor

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
138
Location
San Jose, CA
Yea I have lost another one and next is also very beaten so I took it out. Now I got two biggest left they more or less share tank because there is no competition at the moment.
 

BristolCichlids

New Member
5 Year Member
Messages
10
Location
Levittown, PA
Well I guess all this talk about Bolivian Rams got to my trio. They spawned on Monday evening! When I got home from work I got to watch them do the final 2 passes of eggs. However, the male must have been shooting blanks. After 2 days all had turned white! I thought I was going to get a few out of it because on the second day she had eatened all the white eggs except fo maybe 10. There were still 25 that were not white, but I guess she should have eatened all the white ones instead of leaving a few.
Questions: Should I remove the eggs the next time and try artificial hatching, this way I can pick off the dead ones, or give her another try? Could the male be shooting blanks or did he just miss fertilizing a few that turned white and just spread to the others.
The last 25 that I saw looked like they were going to hatch (could see dark forming in eggs) then the white just spread in about 2 hours!
Oh Well! Hopefully I can get them to spawn again!
 

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