beginner with questions!

[nicola]

Hi everyone,

I'm normally an african malawi kind of gal but need to get a larger tank for them (50 gallon), and so was thinking of going over to apisto's in the 'older' 20 gallon.

I've done a bit of research, water conditions, community tank mates etc but need a little help.

How many can a keep in a 20 gallon? including types of bottom feeders etc.

What kind of water change do they prefer?

Food, from what I've read is high in protein, but anything specific to bring out colour, growth etc?

I have an undergravel filter and was going to use a dark substrate as I've heard they like this better. I'm a little confused about articles I've read... putting earth in the tank... not too sure what that's about!! :?

Also, Malawi's don't require plants and I know this is almost a 'must' in an apisto tank and I'm clueless on this bit...?

I've done a little reading into the fish I'd like to have, which include the 'cockatoo', and the agassiz (sp?), apart from that, the more colourful and interesting the behaviour the better.

Any input is appreciated and thanks in advance,

Nicola.

 

[Eva32181]

How many to keep in a 20: that depends - if you want to breed them and have the babies not all get eaten, then just one pair, maybe two pairs if you have a 20 long. If you just want to enjoy them and don't care if any babies they produce become fish food, then you can have lots of apistos in there - just like with Africans - provide them with lots of nooks and crannies (using driftwood and plants instead of african rockwork) and they will be happy.

Water changes: they like clean water, but again this depends if you are breeding. Maybe 25% once a week? Depends how crowded the tank is, what you feed etc.

Plants: Plants aren't a must for apistos, but they go together so well that I couldn't imagine a tank without them. You don't need to put soil in the substrate for plants or the apistos, but you can if you want (but not with a UG of course). If the only light over the tank is a single tube flouresent bulb, then you are limited to crypts, anubias, and (my favorite low-light plant) java fern. And of course all the java moss you could ever want. Java moss, java fern, and anubias grow best when gently tied to a piece of driftwood or stone - they will eventually die if you bury their rhizome in the substrate. You can have a very nice planted tank with only these low-light species and make a perfect home for your apistos - you can go for higher light and light-needing plants if you want, but that depends on your tastes. Try http://www.thekrib.com for more apisto and plant info.

Water conditions: apistos generally like if below 7.0 (some like it waaay below 7.0 - ask Neil). I do this in my tanks with a stocking full of peat moss (plop it in the h.o.t. filter or in the corner behind a sponge filter). Also, I put driftwood with plants tied to it in my non-gravel tanks, which also helps get the water where apistos like it.

Good luck!!

 

[nicola]

Hi Eva32181,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm not interested in breeding so much as lots of fish! In my current 20 gallon I've got 17 malawi cichlids (2 - 3") can I raise this number? Is the territorial/aggressive factor present in an apisto tank? and what type of, if any, pleco goes with these fish?

I've got lots of bog wood in the current set up that I won't be using when I get the larger tank so I was thinking of tying some plants you mentioned to the pieces.

I'm not too sure what light I'm going to use, I have a standard daylight one but was thinking about getting one that enhanced the fishes colour more. If I do 'upgrade' what types of plants could I put in?

The web site was useful for looking up fish, but not so much with plants. I'll go to the LFS and ask, me thinks, so I can see what they've got.

In any case, I probably won't be starting for 2 months or so, by then I should know what I'm doing(!) :wink:

Nicola.

 

[Neil]

nicola,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

There is a significant difference between apistos and cichlids from Malawi.
Where Malawi cichlids benefit from the tank stocking levels you have mentioned because of the reduction of aggression, apisto won't. That is not to say that you can't keep a bunch in the tank, just that they are not the same animal. The behaviors associated with healthy, happy Malawians are fascilitated by this situation. The behaviors associated with happy healthy apistos are fascilitated by less dense populations that can establish a nice little piece of ground-space. That is the main thing - the ground-space. Apistos, for the most part, hang out on the floor of the tank and establish territories there. That is why they often do better with other fish in the tank than Rift Valley fish. Tetras and the like can inhabit a different "layer" of the tank and apistos don't seem to mind them much.
So, to make it simple, you have 20 gallons of territory in a 20 gallon tank for Malawi cichlids. You only have about 5-7 gallons in a 20 for apistos. But that leaves about 15 gallons for other favorite fish.

I have an undergravel filter and was going to use a dark substrate as I've heard they like this better.

I would stay away from the undergravel filter, if I were you. You don't need that much filtration and they are very difficult to keep clean enough for an apistos tastes. If you are not going to do a plant tank and use the plants that Eva suggests, a thin layer of gravel will suffice. Easy to vac. and keep clean. I would recommend water changes every couple of weeks. With more difficult species or if you want to breed, then step up the water changes a litlle.

Food, from what I've read is high in protein, but anything specific to bring out colour, growth etc?

Vary the diet. If you can find a flake food that they will eat, great! I use OSI Marine. that is the only one that they seem to eat for me and it has a bunch of good stuff in it.
Frozen foods (like daphnia, bloodworms, mysis) will take care of a lot of the protien issues and will aid in good growth. Plus they really like those types of foods.
I believe that frozen prawn eggs, if you can find them, are great for color, especially reds. But a varied diet should take care of most of that.

I've done a little reading into the fish I'd like to have, which include the 'cockatoo', and the agassiz (sp?), apart from that, the more colourful and interesting the behaviour the better.

That's great, research is the best tool available for succeeding with any group of fish. The two that you listed are great choices, but there are subjective qualities to all. You might look into borellii, trifasciata, macmasteri as well. All can have great color and won't cause too many problems with aggression. But there are a ton to choose from.

Hope that gets you started - a least in figuring out more questions to ask.

Eva, Great post here. Good advise indeed.
Neil

 

[nicola]

Thanks Neil,

I was going to go for 3/4 pairs of apistos (1M,1F) with a shoal of maybe 6/8 rummy noses or neons. Could I fit any more smallish tetras in?
I'm not too sure what plecs do well in pH's of 6...? Any suggestions?

I've got a small Rena filter I'll use instead of the UGF, and use my bogwood to wrap some plants around. Was also gonna get some of those broken pots to make mini caves! Is it a good idea to section off bits so they can establish territories? And is my plan of 3x 1M1F ok considering the size of the tank, not being a breeder? or am I best going with 8ish individuals? If I do this, is it safe to get all male as they are the most colourful?

Sorry for firing all these questions! TIA

 

[mordor]

First, I noticed you are from UK. What gallons do you mean, British or US? Assuming that US gallons you got about 75 liters per 12-16 fish (with British gallons you are in even better situation ). This should be fine as long as you cycle tank and maintain good filtration. I do not know much about Malawi cichlids but apistos are very susceptible to bad water quality. You may consider addtional filtration if your Rena filter is very small. Cheapest, yet quite useful, would be sponge filter. I am not sure about idea of keeping only males. Recently I got tank with mostly males but from 3 different species and different sizes. They seem to establish hierarchy. This tank is heavily planted so weaker males can hide and rest.

 

[aspen]

i am not a big fan of overstocked apisto tanks. ime, the least agressive fish don't do well at all. my idea of a nicely stocked tank would be some smaller tetras, (neons, or glowlights), say 10 or more of ther same type and a trio of apistos, like borelli's or cacatoides. i've never kept macmasteri or aggies, but have heard they are nice too. imo, a larger tank is better with rummy's but i have kept them in a 20 gal, but we are talking ideal, right? so 10- 15 glowlights, (my fav) and 3 cacs would be nice. also ime, apistos show more personality when kept in a group where there is less agression to be managed.

rick

 

[nicola]

Aspen,

When you say 'overstocked' apisto tanks, how many is overstocking? Could I get a away with 2 pairs/trios? I'm possibly going to go with the cacatoides and pandura (pandurini)
Should I get a pair or a MFF trio?

I'm gonna go with the glowlights (6) and neons (6), I think that would be nice :wink: Would you consider this to be overstocking? i have 20 UK gallons - 40 liters

Nicola

 

[aspen]

first, you will get a better display with only a single species of tetra, and double the number in that size of tank. this is due to the fact that different species MAY school together, but then again they might not. the bigger the school of tetras, the more impressive the display, imo. and also remember, apistos are only little, but i like them because they are big on personality. also even though they are small they will still be 'happier' or show better if they can claim that whole tank for a single pair or trio. fwiw, i just put a 20 us gal tank together (12"x 24"x 16" high) with 10 glowlights, 10 pencilfish and a single pair of rams. i already had the glowlights, and wanted to try the pencilfish, but if i was starting from scratch, i probably would have bought all the same tetras. rams are my favourite dwarf, btw. i am just trying the pencilfish and they seem very nice.

this is only MY opinion, you will be better informed as to what you like only when you try different mixes, but even when you are getting any fish to mix with any type of cichlids, separation later may be neccessary. that is just the 'nature of the beast'. most of us here have multiple cichlid, and even dwarf tanks. it is easier to be happy with less fish, than to have a problem and have too few tanks to split your fish up into. but, fishkeeping is addictive, and the more tanks the better, imo. have fun!

rick