Apistogramma viejita

[Hitch]

Hi

Finally got a half decent pic of one of the males I got. They are wild caught with the location where they came from as Gaitan, Colombia.

They are still new to the tank so its going to take a little while for them to settle down, plus the high tannin content of the water makes taking a clear pic ever so annoying.



Here is also a pic from the supplier of the fish since he is much more skilled at capturing their colouration.



I am fairly sure they are indeed viejitas (red edge on dorsal fin, red eyes, rounded tail, "zigzag" pattern of the lateral line and patterned anal fin). But I am still new to the species so I would love to get some expert opinion.

Thanks

 

[gerald]

Wow - looks like somebody FINALLY got the real viejita! Your fish looks very much like the Ingo Koslowski photo in DATZ years ago, and Terrence Trassati's photo on Martin & Tom C's website (apisto.sites.no)

 

[Mike Wise]

Yes, caudal spot doesn't lie (colors do).

 

[Hitch]

Whats the difference between the caudal spot between wiejita and macmasteri?

 

[Mike Wise]

Look at photos of the two species. A. macmasteri has a taller, narrower, roughly oval/rectangular spot. A. viejita has a shorter, wider, more squarish spot. That, along with body and fin shapes - plus DNA differences - separate the 2 closely related species. BTW, I don't think Oliver would appreciate you using one of his photos for your avatar. He can be, shall we say?, 'sensitive' about such things?

 

[Hitch]

ah fair enough. I guess the variability in the photos of macmasteri on google confused me, as the caudal spot looks different in different pics.

And ah, good call about the avatar pic, didnt even occur to me about that one.

Thanks

 

[JasonC]

No pressure... but you better breed the heck out of these guys and start their kids circulating! Absolutely stunning in their simplicity.

 

[bludfire]

I bet they cost a few dollars!

 

[peterclarke666]

ohhhhh i wish they would ship one of them pairs to the u.k i wouldve gladly paid £500 a pair for them as all worth it, does anyone know where the others pairs went too as we seriously need to keep track of them ? but congrats hitch your very very lucky

 

[Mike Wise]

Ted Judy sold some true A. viejita earlier this year. Colombia is opening up. I got an email from a collector who was looking for financial support to go out and collect some of the more desirable fish species in the country. He had photos of the true A. viejita and A. (cf.) personata, among others. Not being a commercial importer, I sent his email to those who are. Turns out his requirements could only be met only by big importers. I've seen photos of these species from hobbyists in Asia, and now Oliver in Canada, so someone is supporting this person.

 

[peterclarke666]

well wish all us aquarist could support him aswel as need these species secured in the hobby, id give up my whole fish room just to have a pair of true viejita

 

[Mike Wise]

... id give up my whole fish room just to have a pair of true viejita

Seriously??? Personally, I think the (wild) Red-shoulder/Rotrücken A. macmasteri population is not only more colorful, but has nicer finnage. Could it be that that rarity is whetting your appetite?

 

[peterclarke666]

indeed rarity is my appetite not just for owning them but also for breeding them and keeping them going in the hobby, color has never influenced me much when it comes to apistos as some aren't colorful but have amazing markings and personalities but if breeding the true viejita id prob be able to re build my fish room after just a few spawns with how sort after they are.

 

[gerald]

I think viejita may be highly sought after only because of the photos of other species incorrectly published under the viejita name. To finance your new fishroom you'll need to sell those offspring quickly before the truth gets out and the demand cools. Personally I think it's a pretty nice fish too, but it won't have the mass-market appeal of macmasteri. At least not until the Asian breeders have done their "magic" and created the electric crowntail bubble-eye dragon-blood viejita.

 

[Rod]

Fabulous to see true A viejita available....I'd Love to own a pair

 

[Hitch]

If Colombia is truly opening up and can be maintained, I'm sure viejitas will make it to all of the markets in no time. They were a pricey pair (about $170 a pair). Hopefully I would be able to get them going, I have only had luck with breeding very "domesticated" apistos (macmasteri and hongslois), and havent tried my hand with wild caught.

I do agree that viejita doesnt have the market appeal as the colourful macmasteri or hongsloi, but I love wild strain/coloured apistos. So I couldnt resist to get my hands on these guys.

 

[ADC Nederland]

I have the option to import Viejita's at 120 Pounds per pair but I am careful and need to think about it really hard. 120 pounds is a lot of money and there are quite a few risks attached to the transportation.

I am looking at 10 pairs being available to me, but the market here is terrible. People just dont want to spend above average money on Apistogramma species.

Breeding them would be my first option so I do have some options on making return on investment and ofcourse I'd pay a bit of money just to have them, but there are certain risks to take into consideration when there is such a pricetag attached to them.

Help me out guys... What should I do...

 

[Mike Wise]

My guess is that A. viejita will be very popular, in great demand, and expensive for only a few years, until supply meets/exceeds demand. IMHO A. viejita is a poor 2nd when compared to wild A. macmasteri Rotrücken/Red-shoulder Mac. Domestic forms of A. macmasteri are even more desirable to the average fish keeper. Would you pay £120 for a pair of A. baenschi today? Ten years ago A. baenschi sold for 2X as much. If it were me, I'd buy breeding stock and sell offspring for as much as I could for as long as it was profitable.

 

[mixmixi]

My guess is that A. viejita will be very popular, in great demand, and expensive for only a few years, until supply meets/exceeds demand. IMHO A. viejita is a poor 2nd when compared to wild A. macmasteri Rotrücken/Red-shoulder Mac. Domestic forms of A. macmasteri are even more desirable to the average fish keeper. Would you pay £120 for a pair of A. baenschi today? Ten years ago A. baenschi sold for 2X as much. If it were me, I'd buy breeding stock and sell offspring for as much as I could for as long as it was profitable.

I am afraid I have to disagree Mike. After a couple of months of this fish being entered to the U.K, I am hearing from here and there that so far 3 pairs have died and the people who got the rest including myself, are not really breeders... I would imagine this fish remain as a shadow behind macmasteri for another good number of years. The fact is, the importer also has no more interest in getting more of these back to the UK and you also know the exporter better than myself and the fact he is the only one so far who has sent viejita to a number of limited countries. Although, it is only the time which is going to show us the future of viejita...

 

[Mike Wise]

I consider 5 years from now, not just this year or next year. Sorry to hear that hobbyists in the UK aren't successful with this fish. I know hobbyists in the rest of Europe are successful, as are some in North America. A. viejita is no more difficult to keep and breed than A. macmasteri so there should be plenty available in the coming year or 2. Additionally we are getting more wild stock from areas previously considered too dangerous to collect. All this will mean that A. viejita will not be so exotic/expensive.