Apistogramma uaupesi "red face"

[wethumbs]

I am surprise you get such a huge pH swing. The graph shows one of my tanks that I monitor the pH and temperature on a continuous basis. It has a 0.3 variation.

 

[skoram]

I plan to make slow and gradual changes to the water. Better safe than sorry and the apistos seem to be doing perfectly fine with current water conditions. Of course, what we can see with our eyes and what the fish is actually experiencing can be completely different.

I do, however, plan to make drastic changes this weekend to the tank decor and layout, including changing the substrate to sand. I will keep you updated in this thread.

Thank you again for the very helpful and informative replies.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am surprise you get such a huge pH swing.

I was surprised, but we had a big thread on UKAPS a while ago, where a lot of people monitored their tank pH over a photo-cycle, tanks were with and without added CO2, with and without flow etc. One thing that also came out of this was that a lot of pH monitoring system probes don't give accurate readings below pH7 (for example "S*neye Freshwater").

It looks like the pH change depends upon a number of factors, but mainly the degree of planting you have, the tank architecture and the initial buffering. This "buffering" effect works for both dKH and a reservoir of acids from leaf litter etc. In the acid scenario the pH will stay below pH7 because the ratio of H+ ion donor:acceptors will always remain positive (more donors), even when the water is saturated with oxygen.

Have a look at this one: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/maxing-co2-in-low-techs.29856/page-3> & <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/keeping-low-ph.12720/>. You can't use "pH" as a search term, so I'll need to look through UKAPS to find some more graphs etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[skoram]

Finished redecorating my tank yesterday. Here is a shot of the new layout:



Male A. uaupesi seems satisfied with the changes:





The pH reads *slightly* lower at 6.9. I guess the leaves will need some time to take effect - or perhaps I need to add more of them. I'll be happy if I can bring the pH down to about 6.0.

I purchased a Tetra KH test as well and it took 4 drops to 10 mL of water change color which supposedly means I have 2 degrees of carbonate hardness. That's pretty darn low, right? Am I correct in assuming, therefore, that the addition of acidic substances from decaying leaves, peat, etc. should cause my pH to drop fairly easily, without using RO water?

I'm still not satisfied with the lighting. I am using the original LED lights I had on this tank but they are way too bright. The lights I was using temporarily I felt were too small and dark. Unfortunately the LED strip doesn't allow for any kind of adjustment ...Conclusion: I should purchase new lights.

 

[Mike Wise]

Floating plant would help dim the tank. Another option would be covering some of the lights (black electrical tape, maybe?).

 

[Mol_PMB]

From the tap, I have a KH of 0.6 degrees (measured with the more accurate Salifert kit) and a GH of about 1.5 degrees. I boil up a mix of oak bark, catappa leaves, other leaves and peat, and add the resulting 'tea' to my new water before water-change.
That reduces my tapwater pH of 6.8 to 6.4. The tank runs with a stable pH of 6.4 and KH of about 0.3. There is plenty of wood (both bogwood and oak branches) in the tank, also a few catappa and oak leaves.
I think I will need more drastic measures to get the pH down to 6.0 or less. I'm looking into this at the moment.

 

[Cichlid Junkie]

Floating plant would help dim the tank. Another option would be covering some of the lights (black electrical tape, maybe?).

You could also use a strip or two of screen material taped to the light to dim it.

 

[skoram]

Thanks for the suggestions and replies. I thought about putting some dark material on the panel below the lights to block or dim them, but I am concerned about this material melting or catching fire. Is this a valid concern with LED lights?

I also have several floating plants in the tank (Ludwigia helminthorrhiza, Limnobium laevigatum, Phyllanthus fluitans and Pistia stratiotes) but they have yet to multiply and spread.

 

[Mol_PMB]

I should add that after the approach I described above, my water is quite tea-coloured. I don't know if that's the look you want but when combined with floating plants it is very effective at reducing light levels. I don't have any plants other than floaters in that tank.

 

[Mike Wise]

I find spagnum peat the most effective (and least expensive) method of dropping the pH. I can easily drop my pH below 5.5 in my tap water (3° dGH, 2°dKH).

 

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks Mike. Do you just put water and peat in a drum and leave it to soak, or pour the water through peat, or boil it?

 

[Mike Wise]

I cycle water through the peat in a separate vat/tank. I can regulate the pH better in this way, than adding it directly into the tank's filter system.

 

[skoram]

Do you guys feel that there is any significant difference between using sphagnum peat moss or in the various commercial peat filter products available? There are several types sold in Korea (Sera, JBL, Prodac Aquator). I know humic acid content is important and Prodac's Aquator advertises 25% humic acid, but I have no idea whether this figure is high or low.

Also, aside from the strong lighting, I do not feel completely satisfied with my new layout. Do you guys have any other suggestions or advice for improvement?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Do you guys feel that there is any significant difference between using sphagnum peat moss or in the various commercial peat filter products available?

Sphagnum peat is at least as good as any of the other products, have a look at this thread <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/another-peat-filtration-question.11247/#post-60869>.

I do not feel completely satisfied with my new layout. Do you guys have any other suggestions or advice for improvement?

More plants.

cheers Darrel

 

[skoram]

Darrel,

What plants would you recommend besides the floaters and Echinodorus that would be able to handle a pH of 5.5 to 6.0?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

What plants would you recommend besides the floaters and Echinodorus that would be able to handle a pH of 5.5 to 6.0?

Ceratopteris is good in soft water, Java Fern, Bolbitis heudeloti, Anubias and Java moss are all good, along with most Cryptocoyne spp.

Some of the more "difficult" plants need soft water, ones that come to mind are Tonina, Syngonanthus, Eriocaulon and Isoetes, but others may be able to add more plants.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mike Wise]

I find sphagnum peat from a garden supply store much, much less expensive than anything sold by aquarium shops. I also agree with Darrel, peat for the garden is just as good as aquarium peat. Just make certain that the garden peat has nothing added to it, like fungicides. Additives should be listed on the package. When in doubt try some peat filtered water on a 'test' fish before using it on your apistos.

 

[skoram]

Thanks for the tips Darrel and Mike.

Here's another problem I'm facing: even with reduced flow my Eheim cannister filter is pushing all the floating plants into the opposite side and corners. Should I ditch the cannister and replace with a sponge filter? This is something I was considering doing anyway as I've read in numerous places that most Apisto like calm waters.

 

[Mol_PMB]

I have a piece of fishing line tied to two suckers and stretched across the tank just below water level. That helps to keep the floaters in place. Also, can you point the filter outlet towards the glass?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Should I ditch the cannister and replace with a sponge filter? This is something I was considering doing anyway as I've read in numerous places that most Apisto like calm waters.

I'd keep the canister, you've already got it and its an Eheim. I have what appears to be a huge amount of flow on some of the tanks (I use whatever second hand Eheim filters I can get via eBay), but as you add plants and wood etc it deflects the flow.

The larger tank has an Eheim Ecco 2234 with the Eheim spray bar and an Aquaball as well (I like 2 filters in a tank, because sometimes I have to leave the tank for several weeks without maintenance), and the smaller tank a Maxi-jet 400 with a 8" x 4" x 4" drilled sponge, they sell these for Koi ponds etc and they are about £5 in the UK.

I have a piece of fishing line tied to two suckers and stretched across the tank just below water level. That helps to keep the floaters in place.

That works.

cheers Darrel