Apistogramma lineata info?

[anewbie]

Usually the markings should be visible when the fish are displaying (and in females too).
If merely one of your males has ever shown these markings once, I doubt that they are A. sp. Blutkehl.

Well all the other males are f1 and they aren't exactly courting yet.

I'll try to give them a mirror to play with and see what happens. The species is very passive in general at least compared to any other species i've owned.

 

[Mike Wise]

The best way to separate the 2 species is to kill one (preferably several) and preserve it in ethanol. Not a really good option for you.

 

[anewbie]

The best way to separate the 2 species is to kill one (preferably several) and preserve it in ethanol. Not a really good option for you.

They shouldn't be two species as they came from the same parent - i.,e i started with two and the others are all f1. The part that i find problematic is they are next to impossible to identify since they rarely show the markings that identify them. Now if you want a few i could ship some to you - though i would probably ship them alive and you can then well do whatever

 

[Apistoguy52]

Do you have any higher resolution pictures of the f1 fish? The picture a few posts back kind of makes it look there are some confused rows of scales.

 

[anewbie]

Do you have any higher resolution pictures of the f1 fish? The picture a few posts back kind of makes it look there are some confused rows of scales.

Here are two more - different fish than yesterday - the problem is the tank is quite dark and you can see this by the grain pattern in the image which is causing it to break down (digital photography is wonderful);

While 'friendly' they also get excited when i walk by the aquarium hence there can be a fair amount of motion; let me know if you want more images:

(this fish was substantially smaller but i think the same age as the one photo yesterday; i think there are 3 broods mixed together as they don't seem to prey on younger frys)

 

[Apistoguy52]

I can’t see enough in the photos, but perhaps you can. Do the rows of scales lose their clean rows/lines and get confused/jumbled/deformed somewhere along the lateral band somewhere between the end of the dorsal fin and the start of the caudal fin?

 

[anewbie]

I can’t see enough in the photos, but perhaps you can. Do the rows of scales lose their clean rows/lines and get confused/jumbled/deformed somewhere along the lateral band somewhere between the end of the dorsal fin and the start of the caudal fin?

Those photo are actually close to one to one (not zoomed in small portion of a larger photo); i went back down to look at them with a magnifying glass - what I am seeing is just before the base of the tail there is an equal amount of expansion of the black stripe up and down - i.e, it gets fatter at the base of the tail - i'm not really seeing zag in the scale or line that would suggest a hybrid but perhaps my inexperience make it hard for me to tell what to spot.

 

[Apistoguy52]

Those photo are actually close to one to one (not zoomed in small portion of a larger photo); i went back down to look at them with a magnifying glass - what I am seeing is just before the base of the tail there is an equal amount of expansion of the black stripe up and down - i.e, it gets fatter at the base of the tail - i'm not really seeing zag in the scale or line that would suggest a hybrid but perhaps my inexperience make it hard for me to tell what to spot.

Here’s a pretty extreme example of deformed scales in a hybrid.

 

[anewbie]

Here’s a pretty extreme example of deformed scales in a hybrid.

I'm just not sure - not experienced enough - when i look at them with the naked eye the lateral band looks straight till the base of the tail where it goes up and down and fades (but the up/down seem equal but the fading effect might play a role here - it is less intense as it goes up and down at the base); I think the difference between your fish and the one i photoed is the band is a pigment but the scales look smooth and uniformed and in your photo ignoring the band the scale themselves look jumbled.

 

[Apistoguy52]

I'm just not sure - not experienced enough - when i look at them with the naked eye the lateral band looks straight till the base of the tail where it goes up and down and fades (but the up/down seem equal but the fading effect might play a role here - it is less intense as it goes up and down at the base); I think the difference between your fish and the one i photoed is the band is a pigment but the scales look smooth and uniformed and in your photo ignoring the band the scale themselves look jumbled.

If the scales are good, that’s good. Just thought the circled portion of the picture of your fish looked odd.

 

[anewbie]

If the scales are good, that’s good. Just thought the circled portion of the picture of your fish looked odd.

I think it is a digital artifact from the low light - here is a context picture showing the darkness (it isn't super dark but the phone does a lousy job of amplification):
(the glare occurs because there are aquariums both behind and in front to reduce glare i put the phone next to the glass but then the auto-white kicks in and the amplification seems to break down the image)

On the bright side i spotted two young males displaying and show the marking at the bottom - however i haven't seen these markings on the females so who knows maybe there is something odd happening. I also re-examined the scales ignoring the lateral line and they seem fairly uniformed. While not overly pretty this is really a nice species and so far showing itself as extremely docile in behavior.

anyway i have a lot of extra if you want a few - i hadn't planned on leaving so many in the 65 but when i moved the 20 to the 65 they buried themselves in the substrate making them hard to grab.
---

I was looking at your image again - another difference is the area you circled is relatively localized and seems to be more pigment and less scale changes. I have to feed the frys in a few minutes and i'll take another look with the magnifying glass but i'm fairly sure i'm seeing uniformity of the scales ignoring the pigment of the lateral line.

 

[Mike Wise]

They shouldn't be two species as they came from the same parent ...

I didn't mean that you had 2 species instead of 1. I meant that to determine which species that you have the best method is to examine preserved specimens - scale counts, fin counts, etc. The photos that you have sent (I imagine from a cell phone) are really not good enough for identification.

 

[anewbie]

I didn't mean that you had 2 species instead of 1. I meant that to determine which species that you have the best method is to examine preserved specimens - scale counts, fin counts, etc. The photos that you have sent (I imagine from a cell phone) are really not good enough for identification.

Yea I will try to get some better pictures with an slr; it will likely take two or three months as i might need to buy something new - my camera is 1st generation and the lenses weren't meant for this sort of thing.