1. Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Apistogramma cf. agassizii A239 'Pastel' ???

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by Bart Hazes, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I found a pair of A. agassizii with fry this morning and thought it was time to figure out which colour form this was. I had looked in the past but didn't find a good match. Today I think I found a potential match with specimens shown by Tom Christoffersen from a collecting trip on Río Tamshiyacu (http://apisto.sites.no/page.aspx?PageId=61). Tom suggested his specimens may correspond to the rare form called Apistogramma cf. agassizii "Pastel" (A239). Looking up A239 in the DATZ 'Sonderheft' my fish, and those found by Tom, have a more pronounced yellow head and mine differ from both in having more of the pastel blue, including in the unpaired fins.

    Image of the male
    AagassiziiA239male.jpg

    Image of the female (sometimes she has a double flank spot like in this image, sometimes only one)
    AagassiziiA239female.jpg
  2. philip wood

    philip wood New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Lovely Male love the blue on it. I bet they will sell well when the fry colour up!
    Mbkemp likes this.
  3. Mbkemp

    Mbkemp Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Those are special!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  4. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I discovered that the female has a double flank spot on her left flank and a single one on her right flank. I also found out yesterday evening where she keeps her fry at night. She put them in the outlet of a internal filter that is not in use. She only barely fits inside and I wonder if she also had her eggs in their. Seems too tight a space for breeding.

    AagassiziiFemalePump.jpeg
    Ade205, TCMontium, MickeM and 2 others like this.
  5. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,817
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Color is only one characteristic - and a minor one, since there are 3 known color variants - that distinguishes Pastel from other forms. The primary diagnostic feature is the width of the lateral band. It's wider on Pastel than other forms of A. agassizii.
    Ade205, Bart Hazes and ButtNekkid like this.
  6. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Here is an image from a while ago with a bit darker lateral band.
    Aagassizii3.jpeg

    And here is a current image with a slightly more pronounced lateral band than the first picture I showed.
    AagassiziiMale1.jpeg

    And one more
    AagassiziiMale2.jpeg

    To my eyes the lateral band looks similar to the A239 image on page 104 from DATZ but I'll keep an eye out and snap more pictures if he ever develops a stronger lateral band.
    TCMontium and MickeM like this.
  7. central tanks

    central tanks Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    That is a stunning fish.... kinda makes me want a pair instead of my double reds...
    Bart Hazes likes this.
  8. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    There's about 3-4 dozen of fry and the parents have been very vigilant so far. I just hope they survive my two week Xmas holidays when they won't be fed as frequently as normal. They should be able to find enough to eat in the tank but I'm more worried about the parents and other tank mates getting too hungry to resist a nice little snack. If they don't survive I'll give the pair a dedicated tank next year to try and get a good number of fry from them.
    Mbkemp likes this.
  9. miguelgr7

    miguelgr7 Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Bart, I see your agassizii more similar to the agassizii from river nanay and also from river tapiche, but I could be wrong.
    Bart Hazes likes this.
  10. Bart Hazes

    Bart Hazes Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I agree those are a good match, especially some of the Nanay images. Surprisingly, Rio Nanay and Rio Tapiche are rather far separated so either this is not a regional variant or not all fish shown are listed with the correct catch location. The site http://www.akvaryumist.com/kitaplik/tatlisu_balik/cuce_cichlid/apistogramma_agassizi.html list A239 'Pastel' as being from the Uyacali, Tamshiyacu, Tapiche region, again a very wide geographic area. Finding reliable and up to date information can be very hard in my experience but I heard some people are working on a book for Apistogramma species which I hope will help us out.
    miguelgr7 likes this.
  11. miguelgr7

    miguelgr7 Active Member 5 Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    28
    That's right, the similarity of them is impressive, I also hope that this book is available soon and has updated information that would help us a lot.
    Shane Puthuparambil likes this.
  12. Shane Puthuparambil

    Shane Puthuparambil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2017
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Good luck figuring it out!!

    I just got a mixed bag of A. cf. agassizii and another species, unsure of what they may be... I will post photos soon. They came from the Xingu region ;).

    Shane
    Ade205 and Bart Hazes like this.