Apistogramma Agassizi Flame Red aka Fire Red Question

[dw1305]

Hi all,

He actually had an interesting theory (unlike anything you read on the web). Instead of adding several females to 1 male; you should have more males than females. This is a quite experienced guy, mostly dealing in African Cichlids but also has some SA ones. It does make sense to have males 'compete' over females. But I suppose its species specific; who 'decides' who to breed with.

Personally if that is the sort of advice offered I'd find a different LFS.

The female decides, but the lives of all the sub-dominant males are likely to be short and unpleasant. You can sometimes keep multiple males without females, or more than one male in a large tank, but more than one male and at least one female in a small tank (60cm) is a recipe for disaster. A. macmasteri will form pairs, or harems, but ideally you need a tank big enough to have territories more 2 females, as they are quite feisty with each other. Even in tanks with quite a lot of cover, you need about 30cm2 floor area per female, and some spare for the male.

I use 1/2 Coconut shells for caves, you cut a notch in the rim, and then super-glue some "Java" moss and Java fern to the shell. Simple and effective, the notch can be fairly small, as the male doesn't have to physically enter the cave to fertilise the eggs

cheers Darrel

 

[sundragon]

My tank is 91Lx45Wx55H - Do you think this is enough room for the two pairs (with sufficient plant cover)? There are two separate sections of driftwood (each with a cave/burrow). Should I start looking for another home for the other male?

I'm new to Apistos and don't want to condem a $60US pair to their death.

BTW, you can see my tank below (one month and growing):

Hi all,
Personally if that is the sort of advice offered I'd find a different LFS.

The female decides, but the lives of all the sub-dominant males are likely to be short and unpleasant. You can sometimes keep multiple males without females, or more than one male in a large tank, but more than one male and at least one female in a small tank (60cm) is a recipe for disaster. A. macmasteri will form pairs, or harems, but ideally you need a tank big enough to have territories more 2 females, as they are quite feisty with each other. Even in tanks with quite a lot of cover, you need about 30cm2 floor area per female, and some spare for the male.

I use 1/2 Coconut shells for caves, you cut a notch in the rim, and then super-glue some "Java" moss and Java fern to the shell. Simple and effective, the notch can be fairly small, as the male doesn't have to physically enter the cave to fertilise the eggs

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
The tank looks really good, it is still a bit bare for an Apistogramma tank, but plenty of aquascapers successfully maintain Apistogrammas in these types of set-up. If you could add a few big dead leaves it would help with ground level cover.

I usually tend to put a couple of coconut caves at either end of the tank, say a couple behind the wood where the male is in the photo, and a couple at the other end behind the water lily and the Heteranthera ish looking plant. I can see your drop checker, so I'll assume you have to do quite a lot of plant maintenance, and this may allow the female to feel more secure if she has a choice of caves away from any disturbance.

I would take the second male back, if you can. Personally I would just keep a pair, you do have room for 2 females, but I've never had much joy with 2 females, they may fight and you don't have enough room for a third (which would diffuse aggression).

I'm not quite sure what you have at the moment, is it a pair of macmasteri and a pair of hongsloi? or 2 pairs of macmasteri? Either way they are pretty similar and I would expect male/male aggression even if the 2 males are macmasteri and hongsloi.

cheers Darrel

 

[sundragon]

Hey Darrel,

I appreciate the advice. The tank is just over a month old, and newly planted so it will grow out quite a bit more considering the crypts are 2x their original size in 30 days and I've hacked back the Rotala and Mayaca twice already I have a couple of additional plants coming, mid ground plants that will help break sight lines and give some color.

The Heteranthera looking plant on the left is a Rotala H'ra - I got it at the GWAPA auction last year.

I am planning on purchasing a couple of rock caves that will blend into the hardscape and place them exactly where you mentoned. The area where you see the blue male has a cave formation under the driftwood. The female made that her territory from day one.

The immature ones need a cave and I will hopefully have that by next week.

I can't send the fish back because I purchased them online. The seller said I could have 2-3 pairs in this size a tank. I hope for my sakes he's partially right. The alternative is to sell them - at $60 for the pair! I hate doing that but we'll see.

I was sold 1 pair mature A. viejita "Red Neck" and one pair maturing A. hongsloi type 2. I sent the store pictures of all 4 and that's how he identified them. I've never seen a Macmasteri in person but it looks a lot like mine.

So NO one has luck with ~60 gallon tank and two pairs? I'm wondering why he said I could get away with 2-3 in a tank like this.

Hi all,
The tank looks really good, it is still a bit bare for an Apistogramma tank, but plenty of aquascapers successfully maintain Apistogrammas in these types of set-up. If you could add a few big dead leaves it would help with ground level cover.

I usually tend to put a couple of coconut caves at either end of the tank, say a couple behind the wood where the male is in the photo, and a couple at the other end behind the water lily and the Heteranthera ish looking plant. I can see your drop checker, so I'll assume you have to do quite a lot of plant maintenance, and this may allow the female to feel more secure if she has a choice of caves away from any disturbance.

I would take the second male back, if you can. Personally I would just keep a pair, you do have room for 2 females, but I've never had much joy with 2 females, they may fight and you don't have enough room for a third (which would diffuse aggression).

I'm not quite sure what you have at the moment, is it a pair of macmasteri and a pair of hongsloi? or 2 pairs of macmasteri? Either way they are pretty similar and I would expect male/male aggression even if the 2 males are macmasteri and hongsloi.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I've never seen a Macmasteri in person but it looks a lot like mine.

All the fish sold as viejita are macmasteri. Have a search here and it will explain why.

If you can't easily sell one pair, you can try keeping them, but I would expect that there will be territorial disputes, particularly if one pair spawns. If they do spawn you may have a problem with the Neon Tetras as well. Things to look out for are the fish remaining in the upper levels of the tank, this means that they can't go to the bottom without being attacked and they become highly stressed. A piece of pipe high up in 1 corner will offer a refuge until this fish can be removed.

cheers Darrel

 

[apistodave]

[video]http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/apistodave/Auction Videos/?action=view&current=P1000682.mp4[/video]

[video][/video]

 

[sundragon]

Thanks for the heads up!

I purchased this little ceramic cave for the second pair and placed it behind the driftwood on the opposite side of the tank. I want it to grow some algae so it blends in - the grey makes it stand out, but it's nearly blocked out by the driftwood. I can place another one in the back.






I work across from the tank, if there's a change in agression level, I'll look at quarantine, giving them to a GWAPA member. How do people keep pairs in their community tanks if they are agressive to everything?

Hi all,
All the fish sold as viejita are macmasteri. Have a search here and it will explain why.

If you can't easily sell one pair, you can try keeping them, but I would expect that there will be territorial disputes, particularly if one pair spawns. If they do spawn you may have a problem with the Neon Tetras as well. Things to look out for are the fish remaining in the upper levels of the tank, this means that they can't go to the bottom without being attacked and they become highly stressed. A piece of pipe high up in 1 corner will offer a refuge until this fish can be removed.

cheers Darrel

 

[sundragon]

[video]http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/apistodave/Auction Videos/?action=view&current=P1000682.mp4[/video]

[video][/video]

Thanks for the images. If I can't resist my MTS, I'll get another pair with my next tank - Apparently, I may have a volatile situation in my current setup with two pairs.

 

[limchongyu]

Hi sorry to hijack the thread. Just wondering does anyone have a clear picture of an agassizii fire red female. My female is turning out to have quite a bit of colours on her fins and I think she might be a sneaker male. She is more "roundish" compared to the male though and definitely not as striking in terms of color. Any help is appreciated.

 

[ste12000]

No problem, heres a picture of one of my old females.. As you can see all fins are completely clear. Females dont show much if any colour in the fins although there are female cacatuoides appearing with lots of red, its possible that this is happening with domestic lines of agassizi?

 

[limchongyu]

Thanks ste12000. Wonderful fish wished I could get my hands on some of those!
I've attached 2 pictures of the fish taken just out of the bag around 2wks ago. Sorry for the lousy pics.

It's been a long time since my last pair of agassizii. I guess the elongated fins also point to it being a male? The body shape looks off for an agassizii female to me but there are few apisto hobbyists in my country nowadays.

The male looks just like the one you posted earlier in the thread but without any blue in the fins.

 

[DZil]

a little confusing, so did anyone find the fire red agassizi for sale here in US ?

 

[georgedv]

I don't know, but apistodave has some for sale on aquabid.

 

[Andrew Powell]

Haha, I'm jelly!! I'll take your flame red and raise you a hongsloi II

And I'll raise you my Eremnopyge