Apisto Papagei

[Chris S]

Hey guys,

Thought I would introduce myself here. I've been lurking on the forums, scooping up advice as needed as I am quite new at keeping apisto's.

Right now the only apisto's I have are a pair of algodon's, or Papagei, that I keep in a planted 20g. I also have two pairs of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi that I keep in a 40g planted community tank (cardinals, oto's, red cherries).

Interesting for me was watching my apisto's court, and spawn. As both were quite young when I purchased them, I assume that this was their first spawn. I ended up with about 40 fry, which the female looked after diligently for about two weeks. The male did not seem to have any part in looking after them, which suprised me (as my rams are both quite involved in looking after the fry). I'm not entirely sure if this abnormal or not though. I did not feed the fry for the first week and they seemed to do quite well despite this (heavily planted, I think they were feeding off microorganisms from the large amounts of moss and pygmy chain sword).

In any case, I noticed that the male began courting the female again and soon after she was unable to herd the fry around and keep track of them. By the time I really noticed this, the amount of fry dropped to around 15 or so.

Not having anywhere else to put the fry, I'm using a breeding net in the same tank to try and raise the remaining fry, as I begin cycling another 20g tank to use as a growout. Right now, I try to feed them some freshly hatched artemia once a day and now have them eating hikari first bites. Hopefully I can try them on some flake soonish too.

I'm interested to know if anyone has mixed fry in a growout tank, such as multiple apisto species and/or blue or bolivian rams - have you had any luck?

Also, any recommendations on feeding apisto's? I try to feed them an assortment (Hikari brine shrimp, micro wafers, blood worms, flake and New Spectrum cichlid formula), however they seem to prefer anything floating, whereas the micro wafers and NLS sink so fast (which in my opinion are the best for them) so they don't eat as much of it.

Last question I have is, has anyone been able to successfully raise a brood of fry to maturity without having to seperate the littles ones or the parents? I'm talking in a setting close to mine - 20g, no dither fish. They were doing so well, until the male wanted to court her again!

Anyway, thanks for reading and I appreciate any input. Hopefully I can post some pictures sooner or later.

Chris

 

[Mike Wise]

First, welcome to the forum. I'm surprised that no one has answered yet. I'll try.

Your apistos are behaving normally. Rams are not apistos anymore. Rams are biparental. Your Papagei are typical polygamous with the female providing all of the direct care for the fry. Once fry become independent, and the parents are ready to breed again, the fry are driven out of the brood territory - in your case most of the tank. Those that can't leave are killed before they can eat any new fry. You might also be losing the fry from malnutrition. Once the fry eat all the readily available food living on the plant, you need to start feeding them other foods. As you noticed, apisto fry are attracted more to foods swimming in the water collumn. That means live foods for the most part. Sinking food will often not be eaten & then just decomposes on the bottom. Mixing fry, in my opinion, should only be done as a last resort. Each dwarf cichlid species varies in what it eats and how quickly it eats. If you mix the wrong fish, one will often be out-competed for food. Never mix 2 species of the same genus unless you are absolutely positive that you can separate them from one another as juveniles. Yes, it is possible to raise fry to maturity with both parents - but it depends on the species. Papagei is one of the aggressive species, so I doubt that you will raise many fry to maturity with the parents in a 20 gallon tank. I'm sure you could do this with some of the small species like A. wapisana or A. sp. Weißsaum. Some of the less polygamous species probably will work, too.

 

[Chris S]

Thank you for the reply Mike.

I believe my missing fry are due primarily to the male. The female, up until a couple of days ago (I had removed the fry mid last week) was not displaying with the male and I am still catching stragglers (fry) that appear. I've seen them swimming right beside her, right near her little cave without her even paying any attention (in comparison to when she was actively herding them around).

Also, as of a week after I noticed the fry (they are just over 3 weeks old now) I began feeding bbs, which they actively ate. Soon after I tried the hikari first bites, which they also readily accepted. I haven't lost a single little one since removing them into the breeding net, and they seem to be growing and feeding without any issues. I even found another straggler in the aquarium today (with a big full pink belly) which I also seperated.

As you mentioned, I do find these apisto's quite aggressive. The female seems to get a bit of a beating (a couple torn fins, but nothing too serious) when the male is ready to spawn again and she isn't, whilst when guarding her fry she was very aggressive towards the male and he would back off instantly.

As for my question regarding food, it was not specific to the fry, but the apisto's in general. They seem to enjoy their floating foods moreso than anything else - frozen brine, bloodworms and flake and will eat the pellets I mentioned, but really only those that stay at the surface. I was hoping perhaps someone could recommend a good staple food source that floats (the bloodworms are a bit rich to feed every day I think).

I appreciate the advice on mixing juvi's of the same genus, I can understand the problems that may arise when it comes to seperating them. I might see how raising rams + apisto's together goes though, but will heed your advice on feeding and keep an eye out to ensure everyone is getting what they need.

I was apprehensive about keeping a pair in a 20g(my smallest tank) , but it seems to be enough room for them (barely). I'm unsure as to whether anything smaller is really appropriate and I don't think I will try it.

Again, thank you for taking the time to read my post and I appreciate your comments.

Chris

 

[Chris S]

Here are some pictures of the two culprits.

Male:

Female (she is a bit shy!):

 

[KnaveTO]

Hey there Chris, congrats on the fry. My pair don't seem to be remotely interested in each other Mind you they are in my tank with the plecos and some Ilyodon furcidens which could be part of the problem... next time I feel like rescaping the tanks I am going to have a serious look at who is in what tank and where they are going.

As for fry of differeing species I would recomend against it as I have noticed that the females can be somewhat difficult to tell apart and you can't quite be sure which is what species. Males are easy though.

 

[Chris S]

Shouldn't be too much of a problem seperating female rams from female apisto's though.

I didn't know you were on these forums knave, nice to see you =)