Any reason to not send fish waste water through a distiller ?

[anewbie]

I'm thinking about a new system that would use a distiller instead of ro unit. The primary aim is reduction of waste water. The thing that occurred to me is that when doing water changes i could in fact send the waste water through the distiller as my water purifier. This is somehting that i don't think would be wise to do with an ro unit both due to the high waste and bacteria being shared across aquariums but with distiller doesn't those issues go away or am i missing something significant ?

As for energy cost of a distiller i can remove most of that via solar panels.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

As for energy cost of a distiller i can remove most of that via solar panels.

How hard is your water? If you have hard water they constantly need descaling.

The primary aim is reduction of waste water.

I'm pretty sure it will be less efficient, you need a constant stream of cold water tap water as a coolant. Years ago we used to use them in the lab. to make our distilled water and they were an absolute p.i.t.a.

cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,

How hard is your water? If you have hard water they constantly need descaling.

I'm pretty sure it will be less efficient, you need a constant stream of cold water tap water as a coolant. Years ago we used to use them in the lab. to make our distilled water and they were an absolute p.i.t.a.

cheers Darrel

The initial water would be around 150 tds; but after a one time fill the recycled water would be around 15 tds.

I'll double check the model i am looking into but i do not believe it requires a coolant.
---

Do you think it would be more efficient to use ro unit and recyle the waste water. While normally this would be pretty bad since the waste water is quite hard if the input water has 15 tds the waste water should not be too bad initially.

Would there be a problem with build up of hormones, bacteria and similar or would the ro filter remove those ?

 

[Mike Wise]

Have you looked into a high pressure R/O unit? They produce considerably less waste water.

 

[anewbie]

Have you looked into a high pressure R/O unit? They produce considerably less waste water.

Trying to find a model - google searching isn't very efficient on such things - any pointers ? I'd like to get it down to 2:1 or 4:1 if possible - the distiller claims 10:1 (good:bad).

Also any risk of sending 'dirty' tank water full of bacteria and similar back through the ro system if i went that route ?

 

[anewbie]

This is too funny:
I contact a manufacturer of ro system to ask about waste to production ratio and mentioned the input would be 'black' water from aquariums; they said their system won't work with blackwater. So i guess you need special white water ro system

 

[Jonathan A]

I went down this rabbit hole about a year ago and it seemed like the general consensus was "it works in theory", but in practice the energy used to pressurize is more costly than just using new/cleaner water from tap & a weaker booster pump. Local energy & water costs would obv. shift the math there, along with how often you'd need to replace the membranes/media.

I would imagine if would make more sense if you could fully power it for free (solar, etc) and your water prices are very high.

For distilling specifically I have no idea, but I'd imagine it's a similar situation (though I would love to be wrong)

 

[MacZ]

I'm thinking about a new system that would use a distiller instead of ro unit.

It's a shame I can't translate what seems like 500 pages of forum discussion, but on a german forum we had somebody this year who tried to scam in the german aquarium hobby. Guy said he had developed a system that uses a distillation process to clean part of the water and lead it back into the tank purified and using the heat used to heat the tank.
Long story short, people started to pick his claims apart and it turned out to be absolutely not practical as it only goes thorugh a lot of energy for nothing.

And this is my main problem with the idea of using distillation: It takes so much more energy than even a high pressure RO unit.

I would imagine if would make more sense if you could fully power it for free (solar, etc) and your water prices are very high.

That is indeed a situation that would make sense.

 

[anewbie]

And this is my main problem with the idea of using distillation: It takes so much more energy than even a high pressure RO unit.


That is indeed a situation that would make sense

But i noted in the original post that the energy cost could be covered by solar. The unit would use around 14KH and the panels would generate around 40KH.
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Now we would argue that from a $$ perspective buying the extra panel plus the distiller unit isn't worth the long term cost of the saved water (though it might also reduce monthly maintenance) but lets ignore the cost factor and the question remains if it otherwise works or would the produced water have long term issues of not really being pure.
--
I haven't worked out all the $$ yet but that is kind of a side issue at this point and a decision i will have to make. The key issue would be saving water and reducing maitenance. Of course there is a fundamental flaw in that comment because if i can feed the waste water from the aquariums back through the ro unit (not sure if the bacteria will blow out hte membrane) and actually find an ro unit that produce 2:1 or 4:1 (good:bad); then the water savings become minor and the $$ saved could be use for some help with the maint.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The initial water would be around 150 tds; but after a one time fill the recycled water would be around 15 tds.

That should be fine.

I'll double check the model i am looking into but i do not believe it requires a coolant.

The distillation units we used had a single mains water supply, some of which was fed around the outside jacket as a coolant. I'm not sure how the steam would condense (to distilled water) without cooling. You had to adjust the flow fairly carefully or you ended up with a lot of broken glass.

Do you think it would be more efficient to use ro unit and recyle the waste water. While normally this would be pretty bad since the waste water is quite hard if the input water has 15 tds the waste water should not be too bad initially.

Should be fine.

Would there be a problem with build up of hormones, bacteria and similar or would the ro filter remove those ?

They use DI units in hospitals etc, so I assume that it isn't a major issue.

Cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

They use DI units in hospitals etc, so I assume that it isn't a major issue.

Cheers Darrel

DI is distiller? The question was would ro unit work with recyle water or would bacteria build up on the membrane mucky things up

 

[Jonathan A]

DI is distiller? The question was would ro unit work with recyle water or would bacteria build up on the membrane mucky things up

I wouldn't think many if any organic compounds would make it past RO + De-Ionization ("DI"). We'd probably have much larger issues if they did!

 

[anewbie]

I wouldn't think many if any organic compounds would make it past RO + De-Ionization ("DI"). We'd probably have much larger issues if they did!

I would skip the DI portion of the ro unit (I shoudl have said this initially) as the Di doesn't last very long (less than a week) and it is too much work to constantly repack it.

 

[Mike Wise]

You might want to look at a SpectraPure Mega MaxCap® Performance Plus™ 1:1 RO/DI System and similar systems from other manufacturers. No, you don't need to add a DI cartridge. With a back-flush system it will keep the RO membrane clean for a long, long time. I know that SpectraPure produced 400 gallon/day systems in the past. My wife had one in her lab (they threw it away when they moved to a new location).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

DI is distiller? The question was would ro unit work with recyle water or would bacteria build up on the membrane mucky things up

DI is "deionised water", it has been through an RO unit and then an ion exchange unit.

Potentially you can get a DI unit that will produce "ultra pure water", with less than 1 micro S conductivity.

An RO unit on its own will get you down below 5 microS.

Cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

You might want to look at a SpectraPure Mega MaxCap® Performance Plus™ 1:1 RO/DI System and similar systems from other manufacturers. No, you don't need to add a DI cartridge. With a back-flush system it will keep the RO membrane clean for a long, long time. I know that SpectraPure produced 400 gallon/day systems in the past. My wife had one in her lab (they threw it away when they moved to a new location).

But that is 1:1 so 50% waste; i was hopeful for something closer to 4:1 (4 good 1 bad) or 20% waste.

 

[anewbie]

Hum. I found a nifty device:

Digital EC & TDS Controller for Commercial Systems with 4-20mA Output

Discover the state-of-the-art EC/TDS controller, featuring digital calibration, tri-color display, temperature reading, 4-20mA PLC connectivity, and alarm functionality for precise water quality management.

uswatersystems.com

Think of all the wonderful things i can do with 'waste' water based on the waste water tds

 

[anewbie]

Ok i think the following will work if i stick with an ro unit:

ro unit -> c1 -> aquarium -> drain -> sediment filter-> c2 -> loop to ro unit (very low 
float valve in c2 if below x put in tap water)
                                                         ^
            | waste -> tds < x --------------------------|
                                 
                        |->x -> drain

Picture is messed up

The one concern i have is that c2 will be loaded with bacteria - stink to high heaven and perhaps cause long term issue - not sure if there is a solution to that - maybe drip in some tap water with chlorine ? The top of c2 will have a hose to the drain in case c2 over flows. Is there a 'safe' chemical to use to kill bacteria or is the bacteria a big problem ?

Thoughts ?

 

[Mike Wise]

But that is 1:1 so 50% waste; i was hopeful for something closer to 4:1 (4 good 1 bad) or 20% waste.

I doubt that even the ISS waste water treatment system can do that.

 

[MacZ]

i was hopeful for something closer to 4:1 (4 good 1 bad) or 20% waste.

I agree with Mike, that's not feasible. And even heavy duty RO-Systems used in the Middle East and Australia (i.e. in desert countries) get better ratios than 1:1.