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Absolute beginner to black water tanks

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
681
100 gallons (450 liter) a day??? How many tanks do you have? With your tap water you should get about 250 liter (66 gallons) of 50uS/cm (TDS 32ppm) water from 1 liter of resin.
only 6 but they are large. I'm thinking i'm probably better off with ro unit.
 

dw1305

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5 Year Member
Messages
2,566
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Why don't you go for a DI-unit? I use one for many years now and I'm quite happy with it.
For those of us who live in NW Europe, and can collect their own, I really think that rain-water is the most environmentally sound option.

I' be got about 1,000 litres of storage, but I could easily collect 20,000 litres of rain-water through the winter if I had more storage capacity.

Cheers Darrel
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,557
Location
Germany
Hi all,

For those of us who live in NW Europe, and can collect their own, I really think that rain-water is the most environmentally sound option.

I' be got about 1,000 litres of storage, but I could easily collect 20,000 litres of rain-water through the winter if I had more storage capacity.

Cheers Darrel
I live in the right region but the wrong area. With a small city flat collecting rainwater isn't happening.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
10,760
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
For those who really need a lot of RO water fast take a look at this: https://www.aquariumspecialty.com/spectrapure-maxcap-400-gpd-ultra-high-efficiency-ro-di-system.html.:) Definitely not cheap by any means. My wife's metrology lab used a lot of RO water and needed it. Then they moved, got a new one, and were going to throw it out! She asked for it and got it, plus a 90 gpd unit with reverse flush to extend the life of the ro membrane. I have both of them 'gathering dust' because my 10 year old 90 gpd unit is still working just fine.
 

Ben Rhau

Apisto Club
Messages
381
Location
San Francisco
She asked for it and got it, plus a 90 gpd unit with reverse flush to extend the life of the ro membrane.
I've not seen evidence that flushing the waste side of the membrane does anything. It might, but scouring the membrane requires high velocity, pressure, and volume.

However, a DI bypass that bleeds the TDS creep at the beginning (on the treated side) definitely extends the life of the DI column.

I have both setups on my unit (since it's just valves and tubing). I'm not certain there's any benefit to the flush, but would love to know if that has been demonstrated.

-B
 

Apistoguy52

Member
Messages
50
I've not seen evidence that flushing the waste side of the membrane does anything. It might, but scouring the membrane requires high velocity, pressure, and volume.

However, a DI bypass that bleeds the TDS creep at the beginning (on the treated side) definitely extends the life of the DI column.

I have both setups on my unit (since it's just valves and tubing). I'm not certain there's any benefit to the flush, but would love to know if that has been demonstrated.

-B
My unit flushes for 2 minutes upon startup, and an additional 2 minutes for every hour of run time. Last membrane lasted 3 years before any noticeable slowdown of product water. Seems like a pretty good run for a membrane running 1:1
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
681
Is that evaporation?
Are you asking me? If so for the two large aquariums I'm going to use a drip system rather than weekly water change. The planned amount of water for those two (to be adjusted as needed) is 1 gallon ro and 0.5 gallon of tap per hour.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,557
Location
Germany
Yes, I meant you.
If so for the two large aquariums I'm going to use a drip system rather than weekly water change. The planned amount of water for those two (to be adjusted as needed) is 1 gallon ro and 0.5 gallon of tap per hour.
That is a lot of waste water. Are you sure this is feasable? I mean it's for sure not sustainable and the water bill must reach unbelievable sums as well. Going by an average waste-ratio of the RO unit of 1:3 that means 108 gallons per day and tank, 216 for both and ultimately slightly over 1500 gallons a week. (Almost 7000 liters, for my fellow Europeans.) And even with a 1:1 ratio you end up at around 1000 per week.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
681
Yes, I meant you.

That is a lot of waste water. Are you sure this is feasable? I mean it's for sure not sustainable and the water bill must reach unbelievable sums as well. Going by an average waste-ratio of the RO unit of 1:3 that means 108 gallons per day and tank, 216 for both and ultimately slightly over 1500 gallons a week. (Almost 7000 liters, for my fellow Europeans.) And even with a 1:1 ratio you end up at around 1000 per week.
I'm looking at in home systems that are more efficient than 1:1 but will do no worse than inline which is 1:1 (that's for ro). Yes my math puts it at around 1000 gallons per week that works out $15 dollars a month for water plus $26 for sewer. I oculd probably by-pass the sewer charge but i was told it would cost around $20,000 to put in the appropriate infrastructure to support using non-sewer water and there would be other headache since the overflow would have to be heated during the winter. I had wanted to route the output from the drip system into the sprinkler system ... I live in a part of the country where water is plentiful for now due to large rivers and excess rain - what the future holds i don't know - we see the west drying out but the long term prediction is that we will remain wet but one can never tell for sure how the climate change will actually evolve.

I currently do 50% water changes twice a week on my aquarium but with 1000 gallons in two large aquariums that won't be feasible and I'm not sure how much water i actually will have to chnage in them to keep things reasonable pure. I guess one thing is to make sure to keep them from getting over stocked.... which will help.
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,557
Location
Germany
I'm looking at in home systems that are more efficient than 1:1 but will do no worse than inline which is 1:1 (that's for ro). Yes my math puts it at around 1000 gallons per week that works out $15 dollars a month for water plus $26 for sewer. I oculd probably by-pass the sewer charge but i was told it would cost around $20,000 to put in the appropriate infrastructure to support using non-sewer water and there would be other headache since the overflow would have to be heated during the winter. I had wanted to route the output from the drip system into the sprinkler system ... I live in a part of the country where water is plentiful for now due to large rivers and excess rain - what the future holds i don't know - we see the west drying out but the long term prediction is that we will remain wet but one can never tell for sure how the climate change will actually evolve.
Still... oof... Those are numbers...

I currently do 50% water changes twice a week on my aquarium but with 1000 gallons in two large aquariums that won't be feasible and I'm not sure how much water i actually will have to chnage in them to keep things reasonable pure. I guess one thing is to make sure to keep them from getting over stocked.... which will help.
In tanks that size you won't have to do that many and that big waterchanges that's why I was curious how you got to the point of thinking about this solution.
With your ratio of RO:tap you can go with 30-35% every ten days with low stocking density and once firmly established. With 100% RO you could go 2-3 weeks without doing 25-30%. That way you will still always have some days to a week of buffer in case things don't allow for doing it.
 

anewbie

Well-Known Member
Messages
681
Still... oof... Those are numbers...


In tanks that size you won't have to do that many and that big waterchanges that's why I was curious how you got to the point of thinking about this solution.
With your ratio of RO:tap you can go with 30-35% every ten days with low stocking density and once firmly established. With 100% RO you could go 2-3 weeks without doing 25-30%. That way you will still always have some days to a week of buffer in case things don't allow for doing it.
Well I might be able to reduce the drip system; i have to wait and see how the weekly water quality looks. I'll mostly use nitrate level though that might not be the best indicator. My hope is to keep the nitrate level in both large tanks below 5 due to the stocked species. Anyway at a later date i might revisit some way to reuse the water from the drip system.

Btw in the neck of woods where i live people routinely use several thousand gallons of water a week to water their lawns during the summer. Lots around here range from 0.5 acre to 2 acre and a bit further out you can find a lot of 5+ acre lots. If i lived some place like colorado where water has become scarce i would probably have reconsidered things - though I have to admit i miss the mountains and my weekly hikes in the rockies.
 

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mikishuhoo wrote on Apistoguy52's profile.
Hi,

Do you still have Apistogramma diplotaenia pairs available to sell? Please advise. Thanks.

Kenny
I'm clueless. If I say something you can safely ignore it.
Apistomaster wrote on anewbie's profile.
I see that The Wet Spot Tropical Fish currently has the fire red A. agassizi you are looking for. Here is the link:
I've always had good experiences buying from them on line.
Hallo,
I am Hanzle from Holland and keep apistoos for 40 years. Had my own aquarium shop from 1984 till 1988. Always s great fan from apistoos and hyphessobrycon which is s great combination in a Community Aquarium. Perhaps.....in the near future I start breeding apistoos again. Have a 400 liters Community aquarium for hyphessobrycon wadai and apistogramma biteaniata.
I want to get a 55 gallon slightly planted tank with many caves and I am thinking of getting 2 electric blue acaras, 3 blue rams, a apistogramma, 3 angelfish, and some corrydoras. Will that work if I keep the temperature at about and 80 or less?
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