A. norberti?

[rappaz]

Hello everybody, Last wednesday a friend sent me a "A. allpahuayo pair" but now i think that the female is not an A. allpahuayo. In my opinion she could be an A. norberti because she looks very similar to my A. norberti male. What do you think?

Sorry for my bad english.

PD: she has a dark ponit/mark at the end of the dorsal fin like this A.norberti male

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[Bart Hazes]

I have both norberti and allpahuayo and agree it is not a female A. allpahuayo and she is consistent with A. norberti. But I don't know all female apistos by heart and many are too similar to tell apart. Ask you friend what species he is keeping. If norberti is among them then you were probably right.

 

[rappaz]

thanks Bart, my friend has told me that he bought them a cuople of months ago as "a. allpahuayo wc". He don't keep any apistogramma spp. Are a. norberti and A. allpahuayo's habitats in the same area?

 

[Bart Hazes]

They are both found just South of Iquitos but A. allpahuayo is West and A. norberti East of the Amazon river, see figure, so I doubt they can be found together and this being a bycatch issue. More likely things got mixed up somewhere along the shipping chain.

This figure comes from https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/v...k&ll=-24.329222345770457,-67.605717903896&z=4 which has the type localities for all apistrogramma

 

[TCMontium]

They are both found just South of Iquitos but A. allpahuayo is West and A. norberti East of the Amazon river, see figure, so I doubt they can be found together and this being a bycatch issue. More likely things got mixed up somewhere along the shipping chain.

This figure comes from https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=13bSyKbALRy-gCovvcvfcRuUdPzk&ll=-24.329222345770457,-67.605717903896&z=4 which has the type localities for all apistrogramma

Some markers on that map aren't even on rivers. More importantly, markers do not show the rivers a species is distributed to. If we do not have collection data suggesting otherwise, than IMHO this distance seems very short for the two species to not share any river as their common habitat.

 

[Bart Hazes]

The locations on the map are those in the original species description and can be a tiny forest stream away from the main rivers. For these two species the description actually specifies the GPS coordinates. You can find that on my webpage for all described species here http://biodives.com/apistogramma/

 

[TCMontium]

The locations on the map are those in the original species description and can be a tiny forest stream away from the main rivers. For these two species the description actually specifies the GPS coordinates. You can find that on my webpage for all described species here http://biodives.com/apistogramma/

The markers show the reported original location the specimens were found, but as I said, not all the rivers the species inhabit. Some species inhabit several rivers in hundreds of kilometers, some are more local. It might be the case that these species are only found in a few kilometers along a single river/stream, but that is hard to believe without proof that there were no specimens caught in the neighboring rivers even when several proper, big scale fish collections were done. After all these are mostly connected rivers/streams with several common fauna that are widely spread like catfish and tetra species.
I do not know about any collection data sadly, maybe there is not enough data or maybe there already is. Sorry for writing so much if it is already well know with proof by others that some Apistogramma species definately are endemic to a few kilometers long areas in single streams.

 

[Bart Hazes]

It is variable. Agassizii is the most broadly distributed apisto, covering pretty much of the Amazon basin. A. bitaeniata is another species with a broad distribution. But many/most have a rather limited distribution. I believe that is the case for both A. norberti and A. allpahuayo and they are on opposite sides of the Amazon which is a might barrier to cross.

 

[Mike Wise]

You should remember that the type locality for A. allpahuayo is not within its natural distribution (middle Rio Nanay). It was introduced to the 'type locality' by collectors so they could more economically collect the species. As for A. norberti, besides the type locality in the Rio Tahuayo drainage it also occurs in the Rio Tamshiyacu drainage - or at least it did. TomC & I collected it in the Tamshiyacu in 2012, but I understand our collecting locations have been clear cut for a palm oil plantation.