A. hoignei?

[BigTom]

Hi all,

Just picked up 6 fish sold as A. hoignei. They were a Czech import and could either be wild caught or captive bred.

I was reasonably happy with the ID in the shop but I'm not an expert and have noticed what look like one or two lateral spots since getting them home, which I believe would cast doubt on them being hoignei?

Anyway, expert opinions appreciated! Feel free to tell me to come back with better photos, they've only been in the tank a couple of hours. I have a much more colourful male and a pretty likely female also, but they're not pictured as I've seperated them into an unlit breeding tank.

Fish 1 -

Fish 2 -

Fish 3 or 4 (not entirely sure which is which!)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Frank Hättich]

Hi Tom, imo your fish are in fact A. hoignei. The black markings on head and gill cover and the pattern/blotch at the rear end of the dorsal fin base are typical of A. hoignei.

 

[BigTom]

Thanks Frank! That sounds promising. I was just thrown by a comment prevously on this forum by Mike Wise stating that hoignei do not show a lateral spot, which these fish seem to do occasionally.

 

[Mike Wise]

It probably is A. hoignei, but it could be one of the new species separated from A. hoignei (A. intermedia or A. nororientalis). I'd need preserved specimens, or at least know where they were collected (if wild) to be sure.

 

[BigTom]

Thank you Mike, that's good enough for me. Doubt I can dig up any collection info but I'll have a close look at the cadavers if I lose any.

 

[BigTom]

Here's the prettiest pair who've I've separated off -

 

[Frank Hättich]

Beautiful fish and awesome pics Tom! The blue lips are also typical for A. hoignei. If Mike hadn't made me aware of A. intermedia and A. nororientalis, I would have said 100% sure A. hoignei. Mike, do you have pictures of live adult males of intermedia and nororientalis?

 

[Mike Wise]

There are no photos of live A. intermedia that I know about. I believe that ttw collected A. nororientalis in the Río Uracoa about 20 years ago. At least he collected his fish near the type locality. He sent me specimens (together with Nannacara quadrispinnae) and I have slides of them somewhere. I just haven't found them yet. I have way too many uncatalogued slides! Anyway, they were nice looking fish but what separated them from other A. hoignei at the time was the pronounce black ventral stripe that extended from behind the throat and half way back to the anal fin on females when in brood dress. This doesn't exactly match the description by Mesa & Lasso, but this marking was more pronounced on brooding females. Of course, these could have been the sympatric population of A. hoignei. The only other picture of A. nororientalis is the video footage taken by Ivan Mikolji, but his female show no ventral markings at all, so it might be the sympatric population of A. hoignei.

 

[Ttw]

Really Mike, was that 20 years ago? No plans to go back to Venezuela anytime soon. It was however my favorite place to collect.

 

[mixmixi]

As I've spoken with a Venezuelan fisherman recently, collecting and importing fish from there seems to be very difficult having government stopped most of this activities. But I am not sure how true it is. I would love to see more of Venezuelan species as I've been after A. guttata for a long long time now...

 

[Ttw]

I've collected A. guttata twice. In fact if you look at Ivan Mikolji's web site he has a video of the Rio Morichal Largo at the exact location that I collected. The wild fish is much more stunning than any of the pictures that I have seen published. Ivan confirmed to me the information mixmixi states about collecting and exporting Venezuelan fish.

 

[Mike Wise]

Really Mike, was that 20 years ago? No plans to go back to Venezuela anytime soon. It was however my favorite place to collect.

Yes, 1992 or1993. Venezuela is in political turmoil right now and Westerners aren't really welcomed there. The hostility to Americans in particular is rather odd, since US refineries are about the place that can refine Venezuela's high asphalt-based crude oil. Money makes strange bed fellows!

 

[Frank Hättich]

Mike, apart from the video, there also exist some pictures of A. nororientalis by Mikolji. In the unlikely case you don't know them already, you can find them here.
What do you think about W. Staeck's conjecture that the type material of A. intermedia may just consist of young A. pedunculata?