A. Elizabethae spawning

[Fatts]

I bought 2 pair of A. Elizabethae on Tues. They came from water in the 7.0 range with medium hardness. Well my tap water is 6.6 and about 4 GH so I figured that was pretty close so that is what they are in.

I stuck both pair into a 10gal QT with this water, figuring I could slowly lower the TDS and the PH, and then give them each a 20L (gal) to spawn in. Well I looked in the tank this afternoon, and one of the females is guarding about 15-20 cherry red eggs.

Seeing that they are cherry red, I assume they are fertile (un-fertile would be off-white right?), and I know that A. Elizabethae are true black-water apistos. Any thoughts on whether the fry have a chance in this water? Mom and Dad are guarding them pretty violently.

 

[blueblue]

I bought 2 pair of A. Elizabethae on Tues. They came from water in the 7.0 range with medium hardness. Well my tap water is 6.6 and about 4 GH so I figured that was pretty close so that is what they are in.

I stuck both pair into a 10gal QT with this water, figuring I could slowly lower the TDS and the PH, and then give them each a 20L (gal) to spawn in. Well I looked in the tank this afternoon, and one of the females is guarding about 15-20 cherry red eggs.

Seeing that they are cherry red, I assume they are fertile (un-fertile would be off-white right?), and I know that A. Elizabethae are true black-water apistos. Any thoughts on whether the fry have a chance in this water? Mom and Dad are guarding them pretty violently.

Congratulations ! The fry of course do have a chance to develop while you may consider lowering the pH further. Eliza's fry would not develop well when the pH is too high. Adding "Peat Moss" or Black-Water (gradually and slowly) can help.

 

[Fatts]

Thanks, though I am not sure what I did exactly. I was suprised, they are only about 3-4 cm so I didn't think I would see any spawning activity anytime soon.

I can get the PH down to 3.5 with a little work. How low should I go to give the fry a fighting chance? What do you concider too high? I figured that any big change might make her eat them. I think you have the most experience with them on the forum right now.

I boil my tap water with peat. Gives me a PH of 3.4 and an EC of 110. Then cut that with RO/DI and I end up with PH 4.0 and EC of about 20.

 

[blueblue]

Hi Scott, I usually breed the eliza at a pH around 5.x (less than 6);
there is no need to have a pH as low as 3.x as it may kill the fry!!
i would recommend lowering the pH gradually and slowly from 6.6 to 5.8
by adding peat-water or black water (a small amount each time) into the
tank...

Thanks, though I am not sure what I did exactly. I was suprised, they are only about 3-4 cm so I didn't think I would see any spawning activity anytime soon.

I can get the PH down to 3.5 with a little work. How low should I go to give the fry a fighting chance? What do you concider too high? I figured that any big change might make her eat them. I think you have the most experience with them on the forum right now.

I boil my tap water with peat. Gives me a PH of 3.4 and an EC of 110. Then cut that with RO/DI and I end up with PH 4.0 and EC of about 20.

 

[Fatts]

Thanks, I will try that.

I breed my Bioteocus opercularis at 4.2 - 4.4 (anything higher and forget about it) and they are blackwater, so I was assuming that the same could be infered about eliza. Is that not the case? Have you tried lower PHs? I am just wandering if they will even lay eggs if the PH is that low.

 

[blueblue]

Thanks, I will try that.

I breed my Bioteocus opercularis at 4.2 - 4.4 (anything higher and forget about it) and they are blackwater, so I was assuming that the same could be infered about eliza. Is that not the case? Have you tried lower PHs? I am just wandering if they will even lay eggs if the PH is that low.

Hi Scott, hmmm, i only breed diplo with this low pH of 4.x...
for Eliza, i have not lowered the pH to this extent and my personal
experience is a pH of 5.x is optimal. Please be very careful about the
fishTB disease which occurs rather easily at a low pH. Plus, a low pH
may hinder the development the eliza's beautiful and enlarged
dorsal fin and lyrate caudal fin.

 

[Fatts]

That I did not know!! TB is more prevelent on your side of the world, but why take any chances!!! I am going to keep that in mind for all my blackwater fish and try to stay in the 5.3-5.5 range.

On a sad note, I think Mom and Dad decided that the water was not good enough. I only saw 2 eggs left this morning. But they are still a very young pair and at least I know they are compatible and fertile. Maybe they will try again once I get them into some more "natural" water.

Thanks for the good info!!!!

 

[blueblue]

As discussed before, FishTB disease is actually very wide spread BUT
if we maintain a good water condition and make frequent water
changes, its occurence can be lowered. Of course, there are findings
that FishTB (the bacteria) will have a higher population (breed faster?!)
in very acidic water ... which directly creates a threat to apistos...

OH.. sad to learn that only two eggs left... anyhow, as you said,
the pair is still young, they would give you more fertilized eggs next time.

Do you have pictures of your eliza to share?

That I did not know!! TB is more prevelent on your side of the world, but why take any chances!!! I am going to keep that in mind for all my blackwater fish and try to stay in the 5.3-5.5 range.

On a sad note, I think Mom and Dad decided that the water was not good enough. I only saw 2 eggs left this morning. But they are still a very young pair and at least I know they are compatible and fertile. Maybe they will try again once I get them into some more "natural" water.

Thanks for the good info!!!!

 

[Fatts]

I am not questioning you, I am just curious. I thought that FishTB was spreadable to humans? Wouldn't that mean that we would hear about it a little more often?

The eggs are gone today. I will chalk this one up to the water. Hopefully I will get another spawn soon. AFTER I get the water down to good parameters.

I am trying to get a picture of the males, but they are not liking me too much. They are still small and VERY shy. I will keep trying though.

I have to agree with you.... I love these guys they are beautiful!!!

 

[blueblue]

1. FishTB, as the name implies, is a disease for fish... You are right that
it does infect human but the problem is minute... i have seen
photos showing some infection of FishTB in human, but that
can be healed in a week time by many kinds of medicine...
Plus, one may not get aware of the small infection caused by FishTB.

2. Looking forward to seeing the pics.

I am not questioning you, I am just curious. I thought that FishTB was spreadable to humans? Wouldn't that mean that we would hear about it a little more often?

The eggs are gone today. I will chalk this one up to the water. Hopefully I will get another spawn soon. AFTER I get the water down to good parameters.

I am trying to get a picture of the males, but they are not liking me too much. They are still small and VERY shy. I will keep trying though.

I have to agree with you.... I love these guys they are beautiful!!!

 

[Fatts]

OK, I thought it was more on the lines of human TB when people got infected.

And thank you so much for the knowledge, I will definatly put it to use.

Now if I can just get them to hold still and pose for the camera!!!!!