A. diamond face (kelleri) not mouthbreeding

[Mark]

I have one couple of the fish sold by Mimbon as Diamond Face. The male I have does not have the red on the gills (see the other topic on kelleri). I keep them in a 50x50x40 cm tank, spongefilter, lots of hiding places and no extreme waterconditions. For dither fish I put in a small pair of bitaeniata. After feeding brine shrimp and red mosquitolarvae they have spawned in a clay tube (originally for L numbers).
At this moment the eggs have hatched and the female is guarding them very well. The male is not allowed to come too close and the bitaeniata's are attacked wenn visible.

The interesting fact is that the female leaves the fry in the tube. She has already moved them to another tube, but she still leaves them there. No mouthbreeding at all. Very interesting as this species looks very similar to A. barlowi. Maybe this species is facultative mouthbreeding, but I think the bitaeniata are too much present to say mouthbreeding is not needed.

Did anyone else breed this species and see it mouthbreeding or not?

Mark

 

[Mike Wise]

I think that the jury is still out on this fish. We need to remember that A. barlowi is not always a mouthbrooder. Sometimes the same female will brood in both methods - standard cave spawning and mouthbrooding - at different times. Anecdotal evidence seems to point to some environmental factor influencing the method that is used.

 

[Mark]

Do you know what kind of environmental factor that could be? I would say available caves and present danger?

Mark

 

[Mike Wise]

From what I've heard, grain size of the substrate seems to be a factor.

 

[Mark]

My tank has mixed gravel. It is a mix of sand and gravel up to 3 mm. Hope someone else breeds this species on other gravel (and cave number and danger factors).

Mark

 

[blueblue]

I bred A. barlowi several times in the past (i probably also posted some threads on it). When the substrate was very fine sand, the pair adopted mouthbrooding. When the substrate was ADA black soil, they just spawned as what other apistos did. This's my own observation.

 

[Mark]

The female itself has given some clarity to this discussion; she started mouthbreeding today! The first 2-3 days she did not, but today she picked up the young and swims around with them. She is even chasing away the small bitaeniata while mouthbreeding. I think it has something to do with the mixed gravel

This female is a facultative mouthbreeder; I am waiting for other experiences...

Mark

 

[Microman]

I bred A. barlowi several times in the past (i probably also posted some threads on it). When the substrate was very fine sand, the pair adopted mouthbrooding. When the substrate was ADA black soil, they just spawned as what other apistos did. This's my own observation.

Hi,
I have also had similar experiences with A.barlowi.... Fine sand and my pairs were mouthbrooding, gravel and they didnt.
However the introduction of dither fish to the gravel set-up induced mouthbrooding behaviour.
Mark...

 

[Microman]

The female itself has given some clarity to this discussion; she started mouthbreeding today! The first 2-3 days she did not, but today she picked up the young and swims around with them. She is even chasing away the small bitaeniata while mouthbreeding. I think it has something to do with the mixed gravel

This female is a facultative mouthbreeder; I am waiting for other experiences...

Mark

Well thats excellent news Mark.... Just what i was waiting to hear as it clearly justifies the thoughts of the close relationship with A.barlowi
Mark...

 

[Mimbon]

Apistogramma spec. Diamond Face 2nd supply

Hi all!

Recieved last week a second shipment with now l-xl size Ap.spec.Diamond face! Very impressive the males now! Enjoy!!!

Roland www.mimbon.de

 

[cageman]

And so I will.
I now have a female of the first shipment and a male of the second one.
The male looks stunning, and the female is turning yellow.
So, I guess they will not let me wait for much longer.

 

[RAF]

How are they identified by the exporters? As Ap. sp. diamond?! Or "diamond face"?!

 

[Rolo]

Recieved last week a second shipment with now l-xl size Ap.spec.Diamond face! Very impressive the males now! Enjoy!!!

Hi Roland,

Save two nice pairs... Dietmar B. is coming tomorrow, to get my fish! ;-)

regards
(also) Roland

 

[Mimbon]

Aha

wait for him tomorrow

Roland

 

[Microman]

How are they identified by the exporters? As Ap. sp. diamond?! Or "diamond face"?!

Francisco (Stingray Aquarium)was calling them A.sp.Kelleri when we were out there....
This name"Diamond Face" is just Mimbons trade name. In my opinion we should be using the name A.sp.Kelleri or A.cf.sp.Kelleri.

 

[Rolo]

Francisco (Stingray Aquarium)was calling them A.sp.Kelleri when we were out there....
This name"Diamond Face" is just Mimbons trade name. In my opinion we should be using the name A.sp.Kelleri or A.cf.sp.Kelleri.

Well, until is it not sure, if both are the same species, because even if they have similar appearance, they are from quite different localities, we should better use two different names.
The best way however would be, to name them according to Koslowskis type of "nomenclature" and call them A. sp. "Leticia" (= Kelleri) and A. sp. "Jutai" (= Diamond Face").

Somebody should write an article about that and introduce these names... who wants to do that? ;-)

regards,
Rolo

 

[Mike Wise]

How are they identified by the exporters? As Ap. sp. diamond?! Or "diamond face"?!

A. sp. Diamond is usually used as a commercial name for A. eremnopyge.

 

[blueblue]

Well, until is it not sure, if both are the same species, because even if they have similar appearance, they are from quite different localities, we should better use two different names.
The best way however would be, to name them according to Koslowskis type of "nomenclature" and call them A. sp. "Leticia" (= Kelleri) and A. sp. "Jutai" (= Diamond Face").

Somebody should write an article about that and introduce these names... who wants to do that? ;-)

regards,
Rolo

Hi Rolo, how about you write the article?

 

[blueblue]

A. sp. Diamond is usually used as a commercial name for A. eremnopyge.

To be frank, some friends (traders) asked me about what A. sp. Diamond Face is,
my answer was: "Strawberry (i.e., A. eremnopyge)". Now, I know I am wrong because
A. sp. Diamond Face is different from A. sp. Diamond ... and it's a pity that
A. sp. Diamond Face has not yet landed Hong Kong... This time, I have to envy you guys and feel bad for my mistake...

 

[Microman]

A. sp. Diamond Face has not yet landed Hong Kong... This time, I have to envy you guys and feel bad for my mistake...

I think the nearest to you would be Japan.... Some were shipped there whilst we were in Peru.
Mark...