A. diamond face (kelleri) not mouthbreeding

[Microman]

The best way however would be, to name them according to Koslowskis type of "nomenclature" and call them A. sp. "Leticia" (= Kelleri) and A. sp. "Jutai" (= Diamond Face").
regards,
Rolo

What do we then call other newly collected undescribed species from the same areas? There are without doubt other fish in these areas awaiting collection.
A.sp."Kelleri" has been known as such for quite some time now and i see no reason to change.
Why not call the Rio Jutai fish A.sp."Tino" after the collector who has brought it into the hobby IF it is in fact a different species which i personally very much doubt....
Mark...

 

[Rolo]

Hi Rolo, how about you write the article?

Hehe.. maybe? I finally got my "Diamond Faces" last Tuesday.
But for an article I would need some good pictures of A. sp. Kelleri and my fishes have to grow up a little bit first. Otherwise I can't promise, that I wouldn't call them A. cf. barlowi "Jutai" and A. cf. barlowi "Leticia" ;-)
I have to watch them further on and compare them more accurately, but right at the moment I can't see any differences between my A. barlowi and my A. sp. Diamond Face, except some little red markings in the face, but that wouldn't be enough for a definition as a separate species.
Right now, I can't even see, if the females have a black breast-band or not, but it seems, that they will develop a two-tipped caudal. ...but would even this enough for saying, that it's more than a more eastern local form of A. barlowi?

What do we then call other newly collected undescribed species from the same areas? There are without doubt other fish in these areas awaiting collection.

What did we call them in the past? This is not a new problem... there are several possibilities.

A.sp."Kelleri" has been known as such for quite some time now and i see no reason to change.

I agree, that it assumedly not possible to get this name out of peoples mind, but on the other hand this name is only published in a netherland forum (and therefore here) and this species is nowhere available in the hobby at all. So, just a very small amount of crazy apisto-fanatics know this name at all. ;-)

Why not call the Rio Jutai fish A.sp."Tino" after the collector who has brought it into the hobby IF it is in fact a different species which i personally very much doubt....

That would be possible, but I am in a complete agreement with Ingo Koslowski in that case, that "dedication names" should be confined to scientific species descriptions. These dedications names do not include any useful information about locality or appearance, so why should we use them.
The genus apistogramma is even complex enough with more meaningful names. ;-)

 

[blueblue]

I think the nearest to you would be Japan.... Some were shipped there whilst we were in Peru.
Mark...

you know, i'd rather the fish is available in trader such as glaser in Germany than Aqua-fin in Japan because the chance for me to get fish from Germany is higher now. Japan's fish is too expensive while variety is too little to justify a full shipment these days. Plus, the exchange rate is very unfavourable now.

 

[blueblue]

Envy you Rolo for getting the fish. So, please do update us more over here.
You know, my first reading of the threads on kelleri all gave me a feeling that
they're nothing more than "Maulbruter" while after learning the locality and a few more pictures on the male fish... i started to re-think... anyhow, i will be very interested to know more. Look forward to your article/report soon.
Please send my regards to little Rolo

 

[Microman]

Right now, I can't even see, if the females have a black breast-band or not, but it seems, that they will develop a two-tipped caudal. ...but would even this enough for saying, that it's more than a more eastern local form of A. barlowi?
;-)

I really do wish that there was definitive meaning as to what criteria are met to see if a species is new or not.
At the moment it seems possible that species can be defined,or not, on the toss of a coin OR on which side of the bed an author/enthusiast rose from on that particular morning.
We are certainly not all on the same page as far as definitions are concerned.
Makes it all very exciting though....
Mark...

 

[ed seeley]

I really do wish that there was definitive meaning as to what criteria are met to see if a species is new or not.
At the moment it seems possible that species can be defined,or not, on the toss of a coin OR on which side of the bed an author/enthusiast rose from on that particular morning.
We are certainly not all on the same page as far as definitions are concerned.
Makes it all very exciting though....
Mark...

The problem is a species is a purely human mechanism for classifying the natural world. In nature there's no such distinction. Some things will cross if they meet in the wild whereas as somethings won't while some things will never meet! And even some things that do meet and hybridise stay as separate species because the hybrids don't do as well as the pure species!

According to the biological species concept a species is basically a group of reproductively isolated individuals. But how do you tell that in the field when collecting fish?!!!

 

[Tom C]

And just to make the confusion complete: some has put the name Apisto sp. "BLUE FLAME" on this fish.....

If you follow the link to Petfrd.com, and you are not logged in, you might not see the pictures posted. So: This is the pictures Mimbon posted:

Copyright: www.mimbon.de

Copyright: www.mimbon.de

(Roland: If you have any objections about copying your pics, please let me know, and I'll remove them)