125g Blue Ram Tank

[aarhud]

Hello All,

I have wanted to try a big group of M. ramirezi for some time and I finally decided to pull the trigger. The tank is a standard 125g (72x18 footprint). Current stock is 7 rams sourced from a seller on aquabid. Unfortunately, I did not have much luck with the sex ratios. I ended up with 5m2f. I purchased another 12 rams earlier this week and expect them to ship soon weather permitting. Time will tell how many pairs I will be able to maintain.

The tank is somewhat open at the moment. I moved most of my driftwood to my outdoor tub to give my various grow-out cichlids some cover. Once I get around to replacing the wood in the tubs with some other structure, I'll add the driftwood to this tank along with more oak leaves.

Forgive the pitiful photos for now. A new camera is in my near future and hopefully better photos will follow. If you have super human vision, you may be able to make out the eggs on the oak leaf in the second picture. Two pairs have settled down right beside each other and put on an exciting show when trying to intimidate each other!





Thanks for looking,
Aaron

 

[abrooks12376]

That tank could become a war zone. Tons of structure and tall plants will be needed to break up territories and line of sight. Female rams are freaking vicious when in spawn..

 

[aarhud]

Thanks for the reply and I agree with you absolutely. The order of 12 rams have not shipped yet, I will add extra cover once I receive them. I did not want to create a look I liked only to have to change it around once the new fish come in. I'm not going to add many plants, but will have oak leaves galore.

So far so good. One pair has 3 day old wrigglers. And you are right, female rams are pretty aggressive. I'm surprised, the female keeps a 3 foot area clear of the other rams.

One interesting note. The unpaired fish stay out of the way of the pair with free swimmers, but the second pair holds their ground which results in harmless posturing from both pairs. I hope once I get in more rams, more pairs form and the aggression is reduced to posturing. But if aggression is still bad enough to cause unnecessary stress I will reduce the numbers down to a more manageable number.

 

[abrooks12376]

Here's a vid from a while back when I was still "learning". Tank is nasty, watch the whole video, last 30 seconds get intense. This wasn't even close.to the worst of it. They were wc if that makes a difference. Male was in the algae mountain on the right.. Battle rams:

 

[aarhud]

Neat video. Did you have multiple pairs? Did you ever notice physical damage to the fish (missing scales, nipped fins, etc).

 

[abrooks12376]

Neat video. Did you have multiple pairs? Did you ever notice physical damage to the fish (missing scales, nipped fins, etc).

1m 2f. They would have visible damage to the face from lip locking. One on the right was banished to a cave and eventually died.

 

[aarhud]

UPDATE:

The first pair to spawn now has free swimmers. So far so good, this pair are proving to be awesome parents.

 

[aarhud]

Parents ate the free swimming fry. I still consider the spawn somewhat of an success considering the pair did not eat eggs or wrigglers. Hopefully better luck next time. I have added a few hand fulls of oak leaves over the past few days. Tomorrow I'll move my driftwood from the pond and clean it up (Lots of dragonflys buzzing around). The big group of rams arrive Wednesday.

I'm keeping the tank a cozy 84 degrees. Water parameters are PH 6.5, GH and KH ~1-3.

 

[Larry Rogers]

Parents ate the free swimming fry. I still consider the spawn somewhat of an success considering the pair did not eat eggs or wrigglers. Hopefully better luck next time. I have added a few hand fulls of oak leaves over the past few days. Tomorrow I'll move my driftwood from the pond and clean it up (Lots of dragonflys buzzing around). The big group of rams arrive Wednesday.

I'm keeping the tank a cozy 84 degrees. Water parameters are PH 6.5, GH and KH ~1-3.

Be careful to Identify driftwood type. If it is a nondeciduos species or certain hardwoods it can be toxic. I consulted for a pet shop in Miami Florida years ago. Guy had A beautifully designed 300 gallon discus tank with excellent water quality and doing his water changes and was still losing all of his fish. Landscaping was set around a purple heart stump. Purple heart is an African wood that is highly toxic to discourage elephants from tearing it down for forage.

 

[aarhud]

UPDATE:
I added leaf litter and driftwood Wednesday. Excuse the messy look, I pulled a Hip Flexor muscle several weeks ago and its taking longer than expected to heal. As soon as I can, I'm taking out the kayak to get more driftwood and do away with the excess leaves and the one random pot.

The 12 additional rams were added in on Wednesday. By tonight, there are several pairs claiming territories. The leaf litter is working great for creating several "mircro" territories. I'm going to pick up some flex drain pipe this weekend so any fish that get pushed to the top of the tank have a place to hide out. My goal is to have at least 4-6 pairs. I love watching the pairs little skirmishes with each other.




s.

 

[Jonathan A]

Looks good! I'm right there with you on this, I've always wanted to see how our dwarf cichlids act in a huge tank with a large population (I basically want a tiny stream running through my house at this point).

I tried this in a 75 with WC A. Bitaeniata, eventually it came down to one pair. One problem was leaf litter doesn't last... it quickly turns to the "skeleton" and collapses the network of hiding places into mulm. So regularly cleaning some old leaves out and replacing is a good idea. But a more secure structure would be driftwood (or a ton of small pvc segments if you don't care about aesthetics). Manzanita/redwood branches seem to work really well, since they have a lot of tiny intertwined pieces.

[I'm about to try the pvc-network method in a 65 (36x24x18in) with A.cf. panduro or Cacatuoides or something, I'll let you know how it goes]

 

[aarhud]

Thank you for the reply.

I know what you mean regarding the leaf litter. I'm trying to switch the majority of the leaves out with driftwood as soon as possible. I'm actually a bit surprised at how territorial rams are. I tried a similar setup with Archocentrus multispinosus and they held far smaller territories. With the rams, the only thing that seems to limit a pairs territory is a resident pair. Unpaired fish are chased out of a fairly large area considering how the tank is setup. Currently I have 6 sponge filters in the tank, which further added line of sight breaks. I want to give this setup a few months to develop, but I may replace the rams with A.multispinosus in the long run.

I also ran a 90g long (72"x18"x~12") with a large colony of A. cacatuoides. The tank was really fun to watch. If I remember correctly, I maintained 10-12 females and 2 males. I have kept A. panduro in a community setting and IME they are a little more aggressive than A. cacatuoides.

Looking forward to hearing about your 65,
Aaron

 

[gerald]

Try post oak leaves (Quercus stellata) - They're thicker and last longer than other kinds.

 

[aarhud]

I'll see if I can find one Gerald. I'm terrible with trees.

For those of you that have kept groups of rams. Did you notice aggression actually decreases when there is less structure? I have another group in a 55g (3m3f) and notice the pairs do not claim as much territory as do the pairs in my 125g. The only decor in the 55g is clay saucers for breeding.

 

[Larry Rogers]

I'll see if I can find one Gerald. I'm terrible with trees.

For those of you that have kept groups of rams. Did you notice aggression actually decreases when there is less structure? I have another group in a 55g (3m3f) and notice the pairs do not claim as much territory as do the pairs in my 125g. The only decor in the 55g is clay saucers for breeding.

groups keep smaller territories and fewer fry survive. The good thing is that the survivors are usually the strongest of the batch.

 

[aarhud]

I finally had a pair make it to the free swimming stage. The fry randomly spread out and do not respond to the parents signals, even though they are only 2 days free swimming. I don't think any of the fry will make it long, but the parents are trying their best.