New Panduro male heavy breathing - Stress or Gill Flukes? (Updated with photos)

[neo705]

Hi all,

I have finally managed to find a male panduro after months of search and misgendering.

I have 2 females in a larger/community tank and I set up a new tank specifically for the panduro.
I have introduced a female in the tank the day before I introduced the male. She is a bit larger and definitely stockier than the male and she is the boss. She does chase him but the male still looks like he is coping ok. He is interested in food, he occasionally stands his ground, he explores, but ultimately he avoids the female and stays out of her sight. No damage to fins or scales. The main worry I have is that he is breathing heavy. The gills seem to open wider than I'd consider normal and the respiration rate seems elevated.
He's been introduced 5 days ago. At first I thought it was a transportation shock but I would expect it to settle by now.

I thought maybe it's just stress from the female but he is still breathing the same way when they are "asleep".

So I started suspecting gill flukes or something related to his gills. Maybe I acclimated for too long. 1 hour drive home and 2 hour drip acclimation.

Which animal is affected? Species, sex, age? (If age unknown: How long have you had the fish?)
Apisto Panduro Male (young about 3.5cm)

What are the symptoms? Any changes in look, behaviour, bearing, buoyancy, fecies?
Gills seem to open wide but fully close, elevated respiration

How long has the problem been going on? (Timeline?)
Since introducing it 5 days ago

What's the full stocking list?
7 Dwarf pencils
5 otocinclus
cherry shrimp
amano shrimp
Female panduro
nerite snails

Any changes in the behaviour of the other fish?
No

What size is the tank? (Preferrably dimensions, not volume!)
45cm cube

How long is the tank running?
3 months

Have there been any changes in the past 2 months? New animals, plants, decoration?
No. Just the introduction of the apistogramma

What food are the fish fed? How much, how often?
Frozen brine shrimp and freshly hatched live baby brine shrimp
Bugbites

What is the temperature?
25C

What are the water parameters? (Please note all known tank and source water parameters in numbers! Not "good", "optimal" or "perfect"!)
pH: 6.3-6.8 (co2 injection)
GH: 5
KH: 1
EC/TDS: 132ppm (0.5 conversion factor)
NO3: 5
NO2: 0
NH3/4: 0

What test kit did you use? (liquid, strips, store service?)
Liquid API for ammonia and nitrites
Liquid Salifert for nitrates
Apera pH/TDS meter

Are you using water conditioners or any other additives? (e.g. dechlorinators, humic/blackwater extracts, fertilizers)
Seachem Prime

What filter are you using? (Canister, sponge, internal, mattenfilter?)
Oase Biomaster2 250

What's the maintenance regimen? (Waterchange volume and frequency, thorough cleaning of filters/substrate?)
30% weekly

Have there been any chemicals used around the tank? (Cleaning agents, room sprays, wall paint, adhesives...)
No

Have there been any pesticides, fungicides or herbicides used around the tank?
No

Are there any unknown animals in the tank?
No

What has been done already? (Timeline!)
Added an airstone

If so, what meds have been used? (Timeline!)
Nothing. eSha GDEX ordered just in case.

 

[Phil_1983]

First: I am not an expert on fish diseases. Anyways, I don't think that the 3 hours of transportation and acclimatization are the cause. This is a relatively short time, I'd say.

When you say the female is bossing the smaller male around... Are you aware that this species is very picky when it comes to choosing a partner? Maybe this causes the male to be heavily stressed (in that rather small tank) which can cause heavy breathing. To be honest - this is just a guess, since I cannot imagine exactly what it looks like when you say "The gills seem to open wider than I'd consider normal and the respiration rate seems elevated." Do you maybe have a short video of the fish?

Edit: Just saw, that you are using CO2 - Do you have drop checker for this and if yes - what does it read?
I mean, with those values of pH and KH, CO2 should be okay - but I thought I better ask.

 

[neo705]

...continued from above:

I think my parameters are ok, and the fact that no other fish including the female panduro show no signs of anything being wrong, I assume it's something specific to the male.

First of all how worried should I be? Does this look like something too serious? I can't afford to lose this fish.
Does it look like it's stress from the female or a gill issue?
Secondly, what's the best course of action?
1) Remove the female for now?
2) Add another female to spread the aggression?
3) Medicate with praziquantel for gill flukes just in case?
4) Should I be feeding more? or less?
5) Will mirror therapy be useful here?
6) Turn off lights and co2 for a few days?

Photos and videos attached:

Male

Male: Open gills (lucky shot, they do go back but this is how much the open)


Female

I will try and upload some videos

 

[neo705]

First: I am not an expert on fish diseases. Anyways, I don't think that the 3 hours of transportation and acclimatization are the cause. This is a relatively short time, I'd say.

When you say the female is bossing the smaller male around... Are you aware that this species is very picky when it comes to choosing a partner? Maybe this causes the male to be heavily stressed (in that rather small tank) which can cause heavy breathing. To be honest - this is just a guess, since I cannot imagine exactly what it looks like when you say "The gills seem to open wider than I'd consider normal and the respiration rate seems elevated." Do you maybe have a short video of the fish?

Edit: Just saw, that you are using CO2 - Do you have drop checker for this and if yes - what does it read?
I mean, with those values of pH and KH, CO2 should be okay - but I thought I better ask.

Hello, yes I am using a drop checker, it shows green (not lime green).

I am aware this species is a bit picky and I can always remove the female in put her in a separate tank.

I will try and get a video uploaded

 

[Phil_1983]

Okay - again disclaiming that I am no expert on fish diseases. I personally would assume this is stress related. Please, keep that in mind.

One more question? Is he hyperventilating, as well? Is his breathing frequency increased, compared to the other fish?

What I would do is take the male out of this tank and give a him a quiet place to himself. You could remove the female instead, but if it is some kind of disease, you might raise the risk of infecting the other fish.

In this "quarantine"-tank you can keep an eye on him. Feed sparingly to keep his stress level low, keep the water quality up and see if his condition gets any better. Keep the airstone.

What you should absolutely not do is introduce the second female to this tank.
Also I doubt that mirror therapy will do any good. I think it would just cause more stress for him.

For treatment of any diseases you should wait for @MacZ or the other well-educated users of this forum to reply. I really am not the person that should or could give you any advice here, unfortunately.

 

[neo705]

Video showing the type of aggression:

Video showing the laboured breathing of the male:

Video showing the breathing and interaction with female

 

[Phil_1983]

Thanks for the videos. I would definately seperate them. To me it looks like he is constantly in "alert mode".

 

[neo705]

Thanks for the videos. I would definately seperate them. To me it looks like he is constantly in "alert mode".

you might be right. The only thing that makes me think the female is not the issue is that he is breathing the same even when he is "sleeping". I checked last night at midnight and he was in his cave breathing the same.

 

[Phil_1983]

Okay, well, then I don't know, unfortunately. I'd think that if he has some kind of gill parasite that prevents from taking in oxygen, he would try to scrub himself against the scape. And maybe, if it is really late state of the disease, go to the surface for better ventilation.

 

[Mike Wise]

Some things I do to avert such problems. 1. new fish should be always be quarantined before being introduced to other fish. 2. Never introduce a territorial species, like apistos, to a tank that already has a territorial fish in it before removing present territorial boundaries in it.

I think your best action now would be to remove the male to a quarantine tank with high quality conditions and low lighting. Observe the fish and see if the breathing problem remains. If it does, then treat accordingly for the probable problem. I can't recommend a treatment because I haven't had to treat problems like this in many, many years.