New to apistos. Messy M:F ratios. Looking for advice

[neo705]

Hi all,

I'm a fairly experienced aquarists but new to apistogramma.

I wanted to keep 2 species in my 65g heavily planted community tank.

The initial idea was to get a pair of borellis and a pair of panduros.
I found it very difficult to sex them at the store.

I got 3 borellis hoping for (1 male and 2 females) and 2 panduros (male and female)

Once my fish settled in the tank it became apparent that I definitely have 2 female panduros and 2 male borellis (the third borelli I think is a female).

Is it a terrible idea to add a male panduro? and/or a female borelli?
That would make it 1m:2f Panduro
and possibly 2m:2f borelli

How can I fix these ratios without returning fish?

The setup:
65g tank (Footprint 36 inches long, 22 inches wide)
pH 6.4
Temperature 77F (25C)
KH 2
GH 5
TDS 280
Nitrates 0-20
Loads of driftwood and hidden root structures, rocks, caves and botanicals (hence the blackwater look)
Other fish in the tank: pair of pearl gouramis, 7 albino corydoras, 8 pygmy corydoras, 1 panda garra, 6 rummynose tetras, 8 ruby tetras, 4 honey gouramis, L280 pleco (smallest pleco)

Apologies for the poor photo, but here's the tank:

Female panduro:

Male borellii and possibly a female?:

Suspected Female Borelli:

All borellis:

 

[Mike Wise]

There are 500+ species/forms of apistos out there and they do not behave the same. A. borellii is a mellow species and panduro is more aggressive. Add to that realize that borellii is a maternal brooder where the male has little interest in his progeny while panduro form breeding pairs that jointly care for the brood territory. The two species will be incompatible together if they are able to breed. Think the old saying, "two against one ..." I personally think that you should decide on one species or the other. Also realize that a pair of breeding apistos is a poor idea if this is a community tank.

 

[neo705]

Hi Mike, thank you for replying.
Unfortunately, I fell into the trap of thinking that I can get away with mixing 2 species in a larger tank. I did some research but clearly not a thorough one.

It is a community tank but I have no intention of breeding anything.
The idea behind a male panduro is just to give the females a social purpose and a reason to "colour up".
But if the potential of a breeding pair is what makes this a bad setup, maybe if I keep the 2 females it's better overall?

I am very reluctant to return the fish as I feel it's not far off killing them. If issues arise I might have to set up a new tank for one of the species.

 

[Mike Wise]

Compared to how fish live in the wild your 65 is tiny. Single male apistos will protect territories (depending on structure) much larger than your tank. Of course some species are less territorial than others and in the dry season, with receding water, will inhabit much smaller areas. Some are known to even live one above the other in different layers of leaf litter. Few species live in plant-covered locations.

People here know one of my primary mantras: a community tank is not a breeding tank. Mixing the two often leads to a tank full of stressed fish, with some to die from stress-caused diseases or aggression. If one doesn't plan to breed, do not add a pair of fish that will try to breed. Fish are not people. Although too many think that they need 'company' of the opposite sex to lead a good life or show their normal behavior, they do not!

 

[neo705]

Although too many think that they need 'company' of the opposite sex to lead a good life or show their normal behavior, they do not!

This is very reassuring. Thank you. Definitely not adding anything else in there. And ready to separate any stressed fish and add them into my other tank.

The reason I wanted the panduros to begin with was the females. I think they look amazing.
Breeding is not something I'm interested in as I have nowhere to put the fry once they grow.

Currently there's no aggression between the apistos. Just the occasional showing off of fins (flaring). The borellis seem to ignore the panduros.
The panduros are definitely different behaviour wise. They seem to come to the surface during feeding time and eat off the top of plants. The borellis prefer the hair grass and lower levels.

One thing that's not clear to me is the sudden colour and pattern changes. Black lateral lines appearing then disappearing, vertical line across the eyes, colours come and go.
Hard to tell if the behaviour is courting, or trying to establish a hierarchy,

 

[Mike Wise]

Changes in color pattern are a method in communication in many cichlids. Most are visually oriented. The change can indicate dominance or breeding desire.