Panduro breathing heavy

[shuraim2354]

Hello everyone, I've had my Apistogramma Panduros for almost 2 months now they've been eating fine initially when I got them I saw the male having a slightly tilted mouth but it didn't bother me as he was able to eat and do his own stuff now from the last 1-2 days I've been seeing him breathing heavily his behaving fine eating and everything but his breathing is what concerns me I checked the water parameters they were ok kh- 4 gh-4 tds is 65. Also I thought he has something stuck in his mouth but I can't see anything I tried to video him inside his mouth attaching it here... Also he has something string like coming out of his poopshoot yesterday he pooped fine but today I saw that you can see it in the video...

 

[MacZ]

The mouth shape is nothing to worry. I mean, whose nose is absolutely straight?

The breathing and the feces are indeed concerning, though.

As the water has nothing to do with such things directly, because things like this are caused by parasites, please fill out the template.

Template for disease/parasite/death cases

This template contains the most important questions to be answered when dealing with sick or dead fish to find causes and advise on treatments. Please copy and paste into a new thread and answer the questions as precise as possible. Water parameters should be given in numbers. "Fine" or "good"...

apistogramma.com

I will not start to make assumptions otherwise.

 

[shuraim2354]

The mouth shape is nothing to worry. I mean, whose nose is absolutely straight?

The breathing and the feces are indeed concerning, though.

As the water has nothing to do with such things directly, because things like this are caused by parasites, please fill out the template.

Template for disease/parasite/death cases

This template contains the most important questions to be answered when dealing with sick or dead fish to find causes and advise on treatments. Please copy and paste into a new thread and answer the questions as precise as possible. Water parameters should be given in numbers. "Fine" or "good"...

apistogramma.com

I will not start to make assumptions otherwise.

Which animal is affected? Species, sex, age? (If age unknown: How long have you had the fish?)

--> Apistogramma Panduro Have them for almost 2 months

What are the symptoms? Any changes in look, behaviour, bearing, buoyancy, fecies?

--> No change in look or behavior breathing is a bit heavy fecies looking strange

How long has the problem been going on? (Timeline?)

--> 3-4 days

What's the full stocking list?

-->1 pair of Apistogramma Panduro

Any changes in the behaviour of the other fish?

--> No the female is behaving normally

What size is the tank? (Preferrably dimensions, not volume!)

--> 18 inch x 12inch x 12 inch

How long is the tank running?

--> 7 months+

Have there been any changes in the past 2 months? New animals, plants, decoration?

---> No just added the Panduros

What food are the fish fed? How much, how often?

--> I feed them Once per day bbs or fluval bug bites but from the last 5-6 days I've been wanting to condition them for breeding so I was feeding them twice a day once bbs and another time with grindal worms


What is the temperature?

-->26C-28C

What are the water parameters? (Please note all known tank and source water parameters in numbers! Not "good", "optimal" or "perfect"!)
pH: ~6.6
GH:5
KH:4
EC/TDS: 65ppm-70ppm
NO3: ~10.0ppm
NO2: 0ppm
NH3/4: 0ppm

What test kit did you use? (liquid, strips, store service?)

--> Liquid API test kit

Are you using water conditioners or any other additives? (e.g. dechlorinators, humic/blackwater extracts, fertilizers)

--> Only dechlorinator

What filter are you using? (Canister, sponge, internal, mattenfilter?)

--> Sponge Filter

What's the maintenance regimen? (Waterchange volume and frequency, thorough cleaning of filters/substrate?)

--> 20% Water change every 2-3 days

Have there been any chemicals used around the tank? (Cleaning agents, room sprays, wall paint, adhesives...)

--> No

Have there been any pesticides, fungicides or herbicides used around the tank?

-->No

Are there any unknown animals in the tank?

--> Aquariam Snails only

What has been done already? (Timeline!)

--> Used fluke medicine didn't
work 1 day

If so, what meds have been used? (Timeline!)
--> Praziquantel 1 day

 

[shuraim2354]

The mouth shape is nothing to worry. I mean, whose nose is absolutely straight?

The breathing and the feces are indeed concerning, though.

As the water has nothing to do with such things directly, because things like this are caused by parasites, please fill out the template.

Template for disease/parasite/death cases

This template contains the most important questions to be answered when dealing with sick or dead fish to find causes and advise on treatments. Please copy and paste into a new thread and answer the questions as precise as possible. Water parameters should be given in numbers. "Fine" or "good"...

apistogramma.com

I will not start to make assumptions otherwise.

MacZ it would be really helpful if I got some suggestions ASAP I really don't wanna lose him.

 

[shuraim2354]

Any suggestions I really don't want anything to happen to him

 

[MacZ]

Sorry, was on a longer trainride yesterday, had to safe battery on my phone.
One thing in general: got s picture of the tank as a whole?

Things I find noteworthy:
- When you switch to more live food, you should rather up tje volume of waterchanges, not the frequenzy. The water probably has raised levels of waste products, which can't be measured. This might cause heavier breathing.
- It doesn't have to be gill parasites that cause heavy breathing. Intestinal parasites can also cause the fish to breathe heavily. If you want to treat those with Praziquantel you have to get the med inside the fosh, so you would have to add it to the food. If that doesn't work though, you can be sure it's not worms but Flagellates, a form of protozoa, which demands different meds.

 

[shuraim2354]

Sorry, was on a longer trainride yesterday, had to safe battery on my phone.
One thing in general: got s picture of the tank as a whole?

Things I find noteworthy:
- When you switch to more live food, you should rather up tje volume of waterchanges, not the frequenzy. The water probably has raised levels of waste products, which can't be measured. This might cause heavier breathing.
- It doesn't have to be gill parasites that cause heavy breathing. Intestinal parasites can also cause the fish to breathe heavily. If you want to treat those with Praziquantel you have to get the med inside the fosh, so you would have to add it to the food. If that doesn't work though, you can be sure it's not worms but Flagellates, a form of protozoa, which demands different meds.

Just a few hours ago I have seen him scratch against my driftwood a few times specifically trying to rub his gills I have stopped feeding him from the last 2 days and changed water a 2 times

 

[MacZ]

Did you stop feeding altogether?
How much did you change?

 

[shuraim2354]

Did you stop feeding altogether?
How much did you change?

I changed 50% 1 time and with one day gap 30% 2nd time and I've stopped feeding for 2 days gave nothing after I saw the stringy poop.

 

[MacZ]

It is a misconception that you should stop feeding in such a case. As long as the fish eats, feed it! You will have to in order tobget the meds inside the fish. What kind of prazi-preparation sre you using?

 

[shuraim2354]

It is a misconception that you should stop feeding in such a case. As long as the fish eats, feed it! You will have to in order tobget the meds inside the fish. What kind of prazi-preparation sre you using?

I used a local brand in my country (Bangladesh) which other users in my country used but i have taken it out with water changes as I don't know what the contents are the company claims it has praziquantel but it's no where in the packaging or elsewhere so I didn't want anything else happening to them and I fed them bbs after you told me... I don't wanna blindly treat them for anything anymore I want to know what's the problem with him and cure it if possible... The only sure medicines I have at my disposal is Metronidazole, Lavamisole, Tetracycline and seachem paraguard I tried to find praziquantel or some form of it in my country but was unable to find any so, I don't wanna treat it blindly... As I'm not sure what is happening with him

 

[MacZ]

Levamisole is the least invasive and most effective when it comes to worms, but first geht the prazi out. Do two 80% waterchanges and add active carbon to the filter for 24 hours. After that treat with levamisole as per instructions. If this has no effect or symptoms get worse next step would be treating for flagellates. Metronidazole as per instructions should work. But beware that stuff is strong.

Biggest problem is with the naked eye the symptoms of intestinsl parasites are all identical so it is a guess whether it's worms or flagellates.

 

[shuraim2354]

Levamisole is the least invasive and most effective when it comes to worms, but first geht the prazi out. Do two 80% waterchanges and add active carbon to the filter for 24 hours. After that treat with levamisole as per instructions. If this has no effect or symptoms get worse next step would be treating for flagellates. Metronidazole as per instructions should work. But beware that stuff is strong.

Biggest problem is with the naked eye the symptoms of intestinsl parasites are all identical so it is a guess whether it's worms or flagellates.

Ok I'll do just that

 

[shuraim2354]

Levamisole is the least invasive and most effective when it comes to worms, but first geht the prazi out. Do two 80% waterchanges and add active carbon to the filter for 24 hours. After that treat with levamisole as per instructions. If this has no effect or symptoms get worse next step would be treating for flagellates. Metronidazole as per instructions should work. But beware that stuff is strong.

Biggest problem is with the naked eye the symptoms of intestinsl parasites are all identical so it is a guess whether it's worms or flagellates.

Does him flashing against the objects is normal??

 

[anewbie]

Does him flashing against the objects is normal??

How often does he flash? Is it contstant like dozens of times a day or did he just do it once.

 

[shuraim2354]

How often does he flash? Is it contstant like dozens of times a day or did he just do it once.

I've seen him do it twice

 

[shuraim2354]

This an update from today he's behavior wise doing good moving a bit less still pecking at surfaces still eating reacting to me... The physical aspects that I have noticed is it looks like the lip is trying to separate from his mouth there is a small split between his mouth and his lips and and there is something fuzzy on it.... The tilted mouth is been with him since I got him.... Now I'm thinking if this was due to fighting but I never saw thek fight except when I first got them and that too only during feedings... In recent times I didn't see them fighting... In this scenario how should I proceed

 

[shuraim2354]

Levamisole is the least invasive and most effective when it comes to worms, but first geht the prazi out. Do two 80% waterchanges and add active carbon to the filter for 24 hours. After that treat with levamisole as per instructions. If this has no effect or symptoms get worse next step would be treating for flagellates. Metronidazole as per instructions should work. But beware that stuff is strong.

Biggest problem is with the naked eye the symptoms of intestinsl parasites are all identical so it is a guess whether it's worms or flagellates

Levamisole is the least invasive and most effective when it comes to worms, but first geht the prazi out. Do two 80% waterchanges and add active carbon to the filter for 24 hours. After that treat with levamisole as per instructions. If this has no effect or symptoms get worse next step would be treating for flagellates. Metronidazole as per instructions should work. But beware that stuff is strong.

Biggest problem is with the naked eye the symptoms of intestinsl parasites are all identical so it is a guess whether it's worms or flagellates.

MacZ Should I proceed with the levamisole treatment?? After today's update about him or there is something else wrong with him it literally looks like his lips ar coming undone

 

[MacZ]

I'm sorry, I'm not at home over the weekend and thus only on my phone for short bouts.

There is no way you can help the fish, we don't know if it broke its yaw and the thing sticking out is a piece of bone or whether it is so ething stuck there that can be pulled out like a splinter.

It is possible the feces situation is connected to too little food intake, but we can't be sure.

Bottom line: You can try the treatment in hopes it clears up any possible parasitosis, taking strain from the fishes system if it is the case, but not killing it if it's not. But there is nothing to be done about the yaw.

 

[shuraim2354]

Ok brother thank you