Is my male safe in a breeding tank?

[apistonewbie]

Hey all,

I recently set up a 20 gal high breeding tank for my two apistogramma cacatouides and they had success with lots of little fry on their first attempt! While it is a joy to watch these fry, my male has seemed to be hiding more, often in the front left corner by the plant or the fake rock cave, and not as active. Is this normal behavior and will he be fine to stay in this tank for a while? He also seems to be consistently a bit round on the belly, my guess would be from my possible heavy hand while feeding them, but figured I would mention as it could be related. The spider-wood on the left also grows a fair amount of biofilm, which I clean every so often, but I doubt that would be a cause as from research I have seen it is beneficial. The fry will all be eventually sold to local stores, so I figured long term he would be ok, but worrying he may be getting quite stressed at the current stage. Any advice is appreciated!

 

[anewbie]

Sometime the female will go after the male; though when i bred domestic cockatoo the male actually helped the female and all was fine:

If your female goes after the male then in a small aquarium like your 20 you might consider removing him.

 

[Mike Wise]

Species, tank size and decor are important factors. This 20H is small and quite open. I would move him if possible.

 

[apistonewbie]

Hey all,

I recently set up a 20 gal high breeding tank for my two apistogramma cacatouides and they had success with lots of little fry on their first attempt! While it is a joy to watch these fry, my male has seemed to be hiding more, often in the front left corner by the plant or the fake rock cave, and not as active. Is this normal behavior and will he be fine to stay in this tank for a while? He also seems to be consistently a bit round on the belly, my guess would be from my possible heavy hand while feeding them, but figured I would mention as it could be related. The spider-wood on the left also grows a fair amount of biofilm, which I clean every so often, but I doubt that would be a cause as from research I have seen it is beneficial. The fry will all be eventually sold to local stores, so I figured long term he would be ok, but worrying he may be getting quite stressed at the current stage. Any advice is appreciated!

I noticed he also has a small white bump near his left eye, attached in a pic below. Would that maybe be another cause. I also see him hanging out with the fry all the time and the female not really going after him. If I added more cover, probably on the left side, would he be fine?

 

[MacZ]

I don't see any white bump, but the fish is somewhat bloated and the eyes bulgung. And... do I see translucent stringy feces there?

If I added more cover, probably on the left side, would he be fine?

Get 2 big hands full of either Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Ceratophyllum, Elodea or similar and just drop it in to float. Shortly there will be enough cover.

 

[apistonewbie]

I don't see any white bump, but the fish is somewhat bloated and the eyes bulgung. And... do I see translucent stringy feces there?


Get 2 big hands full of either Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Ceratophyllum, Elodea or similar and just drop it in to float. Shortly there will be enough cover.

He has been bloated lately, not too sure of the feces.

 

[MacZ]

Keep an eye on it.

 

[apistonewbie]

I don't see any white bump, but the fish is somewhat bloated and the eyes bulgung. And... do I see translucent stringy feces there?


Get 2 big hands full of either Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Ceratophyllum, Elodea or similar and just drop it in to float. Shortly there will be enough cover.

Another issue the tank has had lately is that right around the spider wood on the left there is some sort of black algae growing in the sand. I vacuum it out every so often but it regularly pops back up. Any way to prevent that?

 

[MacZ]

Is it algae? Is it Cyanobacteria? Is it Mulm? Can't tell.

 

[apistonewbie]

Is it algae? Is it Cyanobacteria? Is it Mulm? Can't tell.

I’m not quite sure, but here is a pic

 

[MacZ]

Ah, bacteria. start a layer of leaf litter. The humic substances and the mulm will solve this in due time.

 

[apistonewbie]

Ah, bacteria. start a layer of leaf litter. The humic substances and the mulm will solve this in due time.

Any certain types of leaf litter?

 

[MacZ]

Leaf litter is leaf litter. Brown dried leaves.

 

[apistonewbie]

I don't see any white bump, but the fish is somewhat bloated and the eyes bulgung. And... do I see translucent stringy feces there?


Get 2 big hands full of either Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Ceratophyllum, Elodea or similar and just drop it in to float. Shortly there will be enough cover.

Just checked and there is some translucent feces. Why would that be?

 

[apistonewbie]

Sorry for the barrage of questions but I thought of one more that I figured this forum would be the best to ask. I’ve noticed feces hanging around on the sand a fair amount and want to figure out a good cleaning crew for the sand along with the glass, sometimes small detritus worms show up. I tired ghost shrimp but apistos seemed to just bully them so not much was cleaned. What would be good for the cleaning role?

 

[MacZ]

and want to figure out a good cleaning crew for the sand along with the glass

there is just one cleaning crew: YOU.
The concept of an animal cleaning crew is useless. Otocinclus and nerite snails are almost always added too early to a tank and starve to death due to the lack of aufwuchs. Most plecos are not algae eaters. Shrimps will not clean, but look for food particles between the algae and aufwuchs. Siamese and chinese algae eaters do not eat the algae most people want them to remove and become quite big and boisterous. Corydoras and dwarf cichlids are not scavengers and won't survive on what they find on the bottom. And as soon as you have to supplement feed any of these animals they will stop "cleaning" completely.

I scrape only the front glass and if you want the sand clean you have to hoover over it with a hose.

You can make it easier to clean the bottom by not cleaning it BUT you will have to establish a good layer of plantbased mulm. To reach that add brown autumn leaves and let them decompose to a brown pulp. Many microorganisms settle there and they deal with waste quickly and efficiently. You will have to remove feces and food waste for a while, though. Because it takes a while for a leaf bed to establish and if it gets too much influx of organic matter to quickly it won't work.

Also right now:

just checked and there is some translucent feces. Why would that be?

That means intestinal parasites. Those should be dealt with before establishing the leaf bed.
These partasites are either worms or protozoans. As you can't find out which one you will have to treat for both if you're unlucky. To get rid of protozoans Nitrothiazolylazane works well, Metronidazole is an alternative. Against worms Praziquantel or Flubendazole are good active ingredients. If the fish do not eat anymore the last chance is Levamisole but that hast to be used at least twice.
I recommend getting a med with only one ingredient, those have less side effects.
I can't recommend any products though, as I presume you live halfway around the planet and we have different manufacturers to choose from.

 

[apistonewbie]

there is just one cleaning crew: YOU.
The concept of an animal cleaning crew is useless. Otocinclus and nerite snails are almost always added too early to a tank and starve to death due to the lack of aufwuchs. Most plecos are not algae eaters. Shrimps will not clean, but look for food particles between the algae and aufwuchs. Siamese and chinese algae eaters do not eat the algae most people want them to remove and become quite big and boisterous. Corydoras and dwarf cichlids are not scavengers and won't survive on what they find on the bottom. And as soon as you have to supplement feed any of these animals they will stop "cleaning" completely.

I scrape only the front glass and if you want the sand clean you have to hoover over it with a hose.

You can make it easier to clean the bottom by not cleaning it BUT you will have to establish a good layer of plantbased mulm. To reach that add brown autumn leaves and let them decompose to a brown pulp. Many microorganisms settle there and they deal with waste quickly and efficiently. You will have to remove feces and food waste for a while, though. Because it takes a while for a leaf bed to establish and if it gets too much influx of organic matter to quickly it won't work.

Also right now:

That means intestinal parasites. Those should be dealt with before establishing the leaf bed.
These partasites are either worms or protozoans. As you can't find out which one you will have to treat for both if you're unlucky. To get rid of protozoans Nitrothiazolylazane works well, Metronidazole is an alternative. Against worms Praziquantel or Flubendazole are good active ingredients. If the fish do not eat anymore the last chance is Levamisole but that hast to be used at least twice.
I recommend getting a med with only one ingredient, those have less side effects.
I can't recommend any products though, as I presume you live halfway around the planet and we have different manufacturers to choose from.

Thanks for all the info! Is there an easy way to tell if it’s worms or parasites? As I mentioned I’d seen small white detritus worms on the glass but those go away once I change the water.

 

[MacZ]

Is there an easy way to tell if it’s worms or parasites?

You would need a microscope and know how to take a sample. And what you're looking for. Hence treating for one of the two possibilities is quicker and easier. If it doesn't work you can treat fpr the other one and then you will most certainly have hit the parasites.

As I mentioned I’d seen small white detritus worms on the glass but those go away once I change the water.

Not related at all. Parasitic worms die off outside the host's body quickly.

 

[apistonewbie]

You would need a microscope and know how to take a sample. And what you're looking for. Hence treating for one of the two possibilities is quicker and easier. If it doesn't work you can treat fpr the other one and then you will most certainly have hit the parasites.


Not related at all. Parasitic worms die off outside the host's body quickly.

Heading to get one of each treatment shortly! Thanks again for all of the support!

 

[Mike Wise]

Please do as MacZ suggest. Treat with only one of the medications at a time for the recommended period. You don't want to stress your fish more than necessary.