Help with Apistogramma info, sexing and ID.

[Bramgroet]

I am looking for a new apistogramma species and saw some I liked at the lfs:


WC Apistogramma ortegai is this apistogramma cf. pebas they are still young so I don’t know if pictures will help. These are pictures from a few weeks ago I went today and they are more colored up and there are some definitely males and females. My question is which species is it and is it possible to keep them at a ph of 6,5, kh 2, gh 2 and TDS 126 ppm.

Als I saw some beautiful apistogramma caetei but I don’t know if they have males and females I know that they definitely have some males. But how do I know if one is a females also has anybody some information on this species I can’t find any (only of the sp. steel blue). I was able to get some good pictures of a male but not from the others.

I hope someone can answer my questions. Thanks in advance.

 

[MacZ]

The A. ortegai might be indeed A. ortegai, they are a variable species with many sub-localities, but I'm pretty sure not cf. pebas. I had those and they didn't have these stripes on the belly.

This is one of mine Mike ID'd for me two years ago. I'm also missing the red markings in the ones above.

 

[Frank Hättich]

The "ortegai" look more like a cruzi-subcomplex species to me, e.g. A. sp. Nanay.

 

[Bramgroet]

After some research I did saw some things:

Here I can see some difference so I do think it is ortegai-Subcomplex. The caudalspot is more a blotch then a small stripe. Also the caudalspot is more on the seventh bar and less close on to the caudal fin then the apistogramma sp. Nanai Cruzi-Subcomplex species. I am just saying what I see here I am not sure.

 

[Frank Hättich]

The caudal spots of cruzi-subcomplex species are not generally supposed to be narrow "stripes", they can very well look as in "your" fish. Here's the caudal spot of an A. sp. Nanay:

Moreover, the caudal spot in "your" fish is not on the seventh bar at all. It is in fact separated from bar 7 by a gap. By contrast, in ortegai-subcomplex species it usually forms a horizontally extended blotch together with part of bar 7, like this:

or a kind of "double spot" like here:

Apart from this "your" fish seems to have yellowish pectoral fins, which points to the cruzi-subcomplex - and in particular A. sp. Nanay - too. But of course, I may be wrong! More photos might help...

 

[Bramgroet]

Now that you say it i see it. But the pictures were from a time ago. I could go to the lfs today again to get some good pictures (if that would help). Cause I don’t want A. Sp. nanay although I don’t know much about A. Sp. nanay.

The A. Ortegai i found really beautiful. So could this fish be kept at the watervalues named above so ph6,5, kh 2, gh 2, TDS 126ppm ?

 

[Frank Hättich]

More photos are always a good idea ;-)
What is called "A. sp. Nanay" is probably a group of closely related species (rather than a single species). On Tom's site (look for A82) you can find some photos of different forms including information on water parameters. Your water is ok for keeping A. ortegai as well as A. sp. Nanay.

 

[Bramgroet]

Then I will take some pictures today. I hope that clears it out. I looked at Tom’s site and I think that the ones in my lfs are looking the most like the A. Sp. nanay (punchana) i think this because of these markings which I can’t find on the other 3 A82.

 

[Frank Hättich]

Such rather broad abdominal stripes are a feature of cruzi-subcomplex species in general. But like all black markings, they are mood dependent and thus not always shown and if they are shown not always with the same distinctness. Moreover ortegai-subcompex species also show pronounced abdominal stripes. So these are not very helpful here.

 

[Bramgroet]

Here are some more pictures.

 

[Bramgroet]

Some more

 

[Bramgroet]

There seems to be one dominant female.

 

[Frank Hättich]

It's a cruzi-subcomplex species. Whether it's in fact A. sp. Nanay I can't tell for sure. If it is, the male should show yellow pectoral fins and a red/orange ring around the eye (at least at times). If it doesn't, it will be very difficult to determine more exactly which species it might be, without knowing the catch location.

 

[Bramgroet]

Whether it's in fact A. sp. Nanay I can't tell for sure. If it is, the male should show yellow pectoral fins and a red/orange ring around the eye (at least at times).

The most developed male did show yellow pectoral fins not the whole fins but a bit. So is it possible to say which species it and which color variation then? Also is it worth to buy this fish for €22 pr fish? Here you can see the yellow. Is it not A. Cruzi it self I see A. Cruzi offered nearby (don’t know if they really are Cruzi) so this might be the same species.

 

[Frank Hättich]

The most developed male did show yellow pectoral fins not the whole fins but a bit.

That's the ventral fins ;-)

I see A. Cruzi offered nearby (don’t know if they really are Cruzi) so this might be the same species.

It can be some form of A. (cf./sp. aff.) cruzi.

 

[Bramgroet]

That's the ventral fins ;-)

I am sorry I speak Dutch so I always have to check with the body parts of a fin this time I didn’t.

It can be some form of A. (cf./sp. aff.) cruzi.

Would it be worth buying them? I have send a mail to the lfs asking if they know where it is caught.

 

[Frank Hättich]

Would it be worth buying them?

What do you regard as worth buying?

 

[Bramgroet]

What do you regard as worth buying?

Nice behavior (which most apistogramma have), nice coloration, I like it when it is a species that you don’t see everyday, are they worth breeding and are they over prized. But if I want to know all these things I think I first need to know which species it is . So I have sent the email I will update the this thread if I have an answer. And thanks for all the help.

 

[Bramgroet]

They are from the Rio Nanay.

 

[Frank Hättich]

Then they are probably A. sp. Nanay.