The Trouble With Males

[Crazygar]

I have been having some serious issues with keeping Male Apistogramma cacatoides alive in my 55GAL tank! Originally I had 2 Males (1 a sneaker) and 1 Female. I removed the Sneaker Male as the other larger Male was constantly picking on it.

I had this male for about 1 month and one day... dead. Rather dismayed, as he was my favourite one! So I'd figure I'd buy another one and with another Female -- this lasted a week. Both dead.

Figuring it was the supplier, I went and purchased another A.cacatoides from a totally different source and this one did not last a week!

The only thing that remains the same is the large Female A.cacatoides that has been in there since I started keeping A.cacatoides. Could she be the problem or is there something else going on here.

The tank is a lush(needs an updated picture), planted tank (see pic) designed with Dwarves in mind. I have noticed, that after my water change and cleaning the other A.cacatoides (except for the large Female) end up dead. I condition my water and no one else dies in the tank expect for (what my Wife now calls) "The Apisto Du Jour".

I perform weekly 20% water changes, of slightly cooler water, treat the water for chlorine, dose only Flourish Excel. I feed a variety of foods including small live (Brine Shrimp), frozen (Bloodworms, Krill, Beefheart) and prepared such as Shrimp Pellets, Algae Wafers, Flaked Food, Freeze Dried Tubifex.

Here are my tank specs;

Tank Size; 55GAL
Temperature; 24.8C
pH 6.5
Filtration; Fluval404 and Fluval1+

Is it weak stock or is the large Female ("Regan") killing everyone following the water change. The tank has the other inhabitants;

(10) Amano Shrimp
(2) Small Black Veil Tail Angelfish (just introduced on Friday)
(1) Apistogramma cacatoides - Female (Regan)
(9) Harlequin Rasboras
(7) Otocinclus huourani
(3) Kuhli Loaches

Gary

 

[Mike Wise]

I see nothing wrong with your set-up. Your female might be causing the deaths, but I doubt it, in such a large tank. I suggest that you try again, but keep the new fish in a separate quarantine tank for several weeks. If they die in the quarantine tank, then you can suspect that they were sick when you bought them. If they survive in the quarantine tank, but die in your community tank, then something is wrong with the community tank/inhabitants.

 

[Crazygar]

Yeah, I plan to try again. The Angels have not been in the tank a week yet, they will as of (Friday, April 14th). They are also 2" Tall right now, so they are small enough not to cause issue.

I surmised, that I might be purchasing the fish to early after shipment to the LFS. After all, shipping stress greatly affect the fish. The original Female was in her tank (at the LFS) for a long long time, in fact I think the employee said almost 7 or 8 months before I purchased her.

I just wonder if my water change schedule might be harsh. It seems after my water changes thats when the newer ones perish.

Its rather upsetting. I read how everyone says these fish are hardy, but so far, they have been anything but.

Gary

 

[Mike Wise]

If the values of the water that you use for a water change is very different from that in the tank, then it can be a problem - especially if the pH fluctuates above & below 7. If you change the tank with water of the same value, you can change water every day - most fish would love it.

IMO, a quarantine tank is the most cost-effective piece of equipment any hobbyist can have.

 

[Crazygar]

Funny part is, I have a 20GAL Tall just for reason now. I was thinking today that I might be getting them "too early" at the LFS. I know that I picked up one batch the day after they arrived at the LFS.

With the water change issue, I've never had a problem with any other of my inhabitants perishing after a change. I keep a large 5GAL jug full of water and it sits at room temperature for a usually a week. I've been doing this for years now without issue.

Maybe I should have them put the fish in question another tank for a week before I pick them up or show up "arrival day"?

Gary

 

[Mike Wise]

I don't know about Windsor water, but if I add more than 10% Denver tap water (pH 7.4, 3º dGH, 1.5º dKH - & chloramines) without dechlorinating the water (letting it stand for a week does nothing here!) most of my fish would go belly up. Does Windsor use chlorine or chloramines to sterilize its water?

 

[Crazygar]

It would be a sure bet to say yes. Our largest Water Sources are Lake Erie, Detroit River and Lake St.Clair. I'm sure they have to neutralize the radioactivity in the water before filtering it :biggrin:!

If I see anymore, I am going to find out first how long they have been in the tank.

Gary

 

[Lisachromis]

Call the water company to be sure. They will give you test results if you ask nicely.

I used to live in Windsor and the water tastes HORRIBLE! I can't imagine it's all that great for the fish.

 

[Crazygar]

No more Zebra Mussel problem. I know, it was like drinking water with a lovely "swamp" smell.

Yeah, I'm going to email the City and see what gives. But the reason I am ruling out the water is that no other inhabitants are dying after the water change, just the "recent" purchases. I am chalking it up to Acclimitization.

Gary

 

[nightowl1350]

It sounds like your tank should be a great place for them. No worries on the angels...I've had a female C. with a pair of angels and she did sneak attacks on the angels when they swam by a plant she hid in sometimes.

You treat your water so there should be no problems with it unless there is a large ph swing, but the angels would be sensitive to that as well.

I would try the QT tank for a few weeks (and a few w/c) to see how the new ones fair. Is the older female much larger than any of the new ones were? She could be old and cranky and kill the intruders off, but I would think you would notice constant chasing when the newbies are added.

Good luck with the new batch and with a tank like yours you should see some babies swimming with Mom in no time. My apisito C. pair would kill to be in a tank like that...they have a bare bottomed one with only a few plants and rocks, pots etc.

Too bad you weren't closer...I have a brood of C's (very small right now) I will be selling in about 3 months

 

[Crazygar]

Is the older female much larger than any of the new ones were? She could be old and cranky and kill the intruders off, but I would think you would notice constant chasing when the newbies are added.

She is quite large and yes, she does chase any new Male around constantly. I know that she colours up quick when a Male is introduced into the tank and if the Male is unresponsive things get sticky. But the tank is large enough (4' long) and has some great hiding spots.

She Patrols the tank worse than the Males will ever do. It seems that she has a super-terrritory and within is a Male with a sub-territory.

Yeah, no one locally has these guys, this is why I hit the States for the goodies now. Seems to be a powerkeg of goodies over there compared to Canada. Though I am hitting Mengearie in Toronto in a few weeks.

She (Regan) will NOT tolerate another Female in the tank thats for sure.

Gary

 

[Galactic Doug]

Just a note: It could be the "Resident B..ch Syndrome" of the larger female taking control I've seen it before in other A.C.'s I have owned. My testing of this was to take the larger female out to a Q-tank then introduce the new breeders to be to the main tank. After about a two week wait no problems developed so I just slipped the original Big girl back in place and all was like liquid sunshine from then on.
Might be worth a try to if nothing developes from Mikes suggestion.
Doug

 

[Crazygar]

Sounds like a good idea. My wife has taken to calling her B---H anyways. I have a 20GAL QT Tank that might put her in and try that out. That might calm her down. More and more I think it was her creating the havoc and killing off the others.

Gary

 

[Roach]

I agree with Galactic Doug. Seeing as you can't easily rearrange your planted tank to redistribute the territories, take her out and let the new male get settled in. When you put her back in she'll be the males ***** instead of the whole tanks.

By the way, what is that plant in the front right hand corner of your tank??

 

[Crazygar]

Roach it is a Hygrophila species. Its Nomaphila stricta or Giant Hygro. I have beyond tons of it. And at the other side (left hand side, at back is Nomaphila siamesis).

Gary