sudden death - possible scenarios

[MikeNYC]

My dominant male apisto eliza (in a tank with 1 other male and a female) just died tonight. I noticed him hiding under a piece of wood when i got home, breathing slowly, then he died about 1 hour later. Color was normal, a little bit dark, no bloating or external parasites detected.

Yesterday, he ate normally twice and appeared healthy and chasing other fish. BUT, 2 nights ago, about 1 hour after lights out, i noticed him sort of "floating" by the top of the tank and appearing disoriented and pale before darting to a cave when i turned on a light. My apistos usually do not "fade" that quickly after lights out, so i thought there was something wrong. BUT, the next morning he was swimming and eating normally. Other than that occurance 2 nights ago, no signs of illness at all!

(I did lose a jeuvenile female very suddenly about 3 weeks ago, but she had stopped eating about 3 days before death.)

Possible scenarios:
1) My sand needs cleaning (2 weeks) and he maybe he picked up some detris in his sand picking causing a bacterial infection?

2) He may had a big fight with the other male that i didn't see (this dead male usually chased the other w/ out fight) and stressed him to death?

3) I just bought a PH meter, and found a swing in PH of almost 0.4 from last night to tonight (6.0 to 6.4) I usually keep lights out for most of day, with only 3-4 hours of light. There probably has been swings of about this magnitude from day to night, did these swings stress him to death?

Any ideas "best guesses" greatly appreciated. I DO NOT want to lose another Eliza!

 

[Mike Wise]

I can't say for sure what your problem is, but keeping them above pH 5.5 definitely is stressful. Ideally, they should be kept in very soft water below pH 5.5. It should be lower if you want to breed them.

 

[blueblue]

Well, Eliza, especially the wildcaught, is rather fragile compared to many other apisto species and could die in a sudden for many reasons. My way of
maintaining Eliza (to avoid sudden death) is: NEVER mixing up too many fish together and keep the water as clean and clear as possible. So, i usually keep 1 male eliza with one or two female eliza in a breeding tank. There is a catfish to clean the wall of the tank, and that's! The male fish usually lives quite well....

Moreover, as a remark, Eliza is very very easy to be infected with FishTB and many specimens that we buy actually carry it. For me, i will do an anti-biotic treatment using EM tablets when i introduce some wildcaught and even german eliza. As a remark, FishTB can lead to sudden death, dropsy, pop-eye, open-wound (which can never be healed) in Apistos...

 

[fishgeek]

blue what are you using EM to mean and what dose are you using

this is prophylatically i take it?

andrew

 

[MikeNYC]

Blue,

What is your take on PH needs of wild caught Eliza? My PH is about 6.6 and was recently told it must get below 6 to not stress these fish. I do keep my water very soft, simulating their natural environment. I did notice PH swings of 0.4 since I added big chunks of new driftwood, so I am planning to buffer the water to stabilize the PH. Perhaps this will reduce some stress.

Any other recommendations on keeping my Eliza in tip top health would be extremely appreciated.

BTW - the surviving male is now very aggressive towards the only female in the tank and chasing her everytime he sees her. I wonder how long she can take this, or whether this male will finally accept her. This female pretty much coupled up with the now dead male who used to dominate the tank. I have another full grown female in another tank, which i will introduce to this tank after everyone fully grows up (these fish came in young.) So, I do hope that once there are 2 females with this male, that they will form a happy clan.

 

[blueblue]

blue what are you using EM to mean and what dose are you using

this is prophylatically i take it?

andrew

Hi Andrew, please take a look at the following thread:
http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=3557&highlight=fishmb

We actually discussed it before ^.^
EM = erythromycin

 

[blueblue]

For pH, i manage to breed eliza from 6.x to 4.x, even though 5.x seems to be optimal. While for wildcaught, i would usually start with a bit lower pH in the region of 5.x and i may increase it to 6.1, 6.2 gradually. The purpose of increasing pH is to avoid the Eliza of getting the tough problem of FishTB (It's known that FishTB is especially wide-spread in more acidic water, and water quality is also worse in more acidic water as the nutrifying bacteria will be much less productive in more acidic water). By the way, as i use ADA aquasoil with weekly water exchange, water's pH will easily be kept at a level of 5.x to 6.x.

Blue,

What is your take on PH needs of wild caught Eliza? My PH is about 6.6 and was recently told it must get below 6 to not stress these fish. I do keep my water very soft, simulating their natural environment. I did notice PH swings of 0.4 since I added big chunks of new driftwood, so I am planning to buffer the water to stabilize the PH. Perhaps this will reduce some stress.

Any other recommendations on keeping my Eliza in tip top health would be extremely appreciated.

BTW - the surviving male is now very aggressive towards the only female in the tank and chasing her everytime he sees her. I wonder how long she can take this, or whether this male will finally accept her. This female pretty much coupled up with the now dead male who used to dominate the tank. I have another full grown female in another tank, which i will introduce to this tank after everyone fully grows up (these fish came in young.) So, I do hope that once there are 2 females with this male, that they will form a happy clan.