Problems with BNP agression?

[JasonC]

So I keep loosing my more expensive, and slower fish for no real reason. They become more and more shy til they hide away and die. I thought this was possibly due to internal parasites, but I have just lost 2 more German Blue Rams (have lost a total of 4 GBR's and about 6 or 8 Apistogramma Cacatuoides in the past year) after the entire tank was treated for parisites with flubendazole and metronidazole.

So trying to further find the cause of why I cant keep a fish with a value of over $2.00 alive, I am wondering if maybe I am looking at a problem of tank agression. Specifically, I am looking at my Bristle Nose Pleco. Has anyone had issues with a BNP becoming agressive, and potentially carnivorous? I am wondering if she is harrassing my slower fish to the point they starve to death and possibly then eating their carcasses? (sometimes I dont find bodies...)

Any thoughts on this? Other tank mates are Ottos, and Harliquin Rasboras. Tank is 20g High, medium to dense planted, with overturned pots, etc.

If no, any other ideas on what is going on?

 

[briztoon]

What are your water values? PH and hardness. People lose many fish due to keeping them in water they are not suited to. If you have problems with parasites with the tank before, some times it's best to strip it down, steralize what can't be replaced and start all over again. This option can save you money in the long run, as you are not having to constantly replace fish.

Bristlenose will eat dead fish on the floor of a tank, but I have never heard of a bristlenose attacking other non pleco fish. How many dwarf cichlids have you had in the tank at one time? A 20g tall is not a large tank to have multiple species in.

 

[slimbolen99]

The only thing my bristlenose plecos have ever bothered were my apisto fry; they seem to like a late night snack apparently. Truth be told, I've never seen them actually predating on fry, or any other fish for that matter, but I find it easy to blame them. That being said, I doubt your BN are the cause of your problem. More information on the water chemistry, decorations, environment, etc would help solve the problem; maybe something you are not thinking of...such as old spoiled food? Best of luck to you.

 

[JasonC]

What are your water values? PH and hardness. People lose many fish due to keeping them in water they are not suited to. If you have problems with parasites with the tank before, some times it's best to strip it down, steralize what can't be replaced and start all over again. This option can save you money in the long run, as you are not having to constantly replace fish.

Bristlenose will eat dead fish on the floor of a tank, but I have never heard of a bristlenose attacking other non pleco fish. How many dwarf cichlids have you had in the tank at one time? A 20g tall is not a large tank to have multiple species in.

Finally able to respond to your questions... work has been rough in the past weeks.

Water parameters requested are as follows:
pH: 7.6+
GH: 143ppm
KH: 53ppm

So the one thing I noticed is that my water values in respect to pH have changed significantly since I last checked them. My pH used to consistantly be in the high 6's. Other params are roughly the same. Could the pH be the culprit? Note these are all tank raised fish, and some raised in same/similar water, or were purchased at an LFS that did not spec a specific pH for the bred fish.

 

[Apistomaster]

I raise fancy plecos in the hundreds and have Bush Nose spawning whenever I have to mix the sexes. I only care to have them around when they are small but not due to aggression. Larger specimens often dig caves under rocks or wood and uproot plants.
I would never keep any pleco species in an Apistogramma breeding set up because they will commandeer the Apisto's spawning caves. They will eat newly laid eggs or hatched larvae.
I recommend Otocinclus but maybe better still, a Farlowella. Farlowella never go inside of breeding caves and one medium size Farlowella will eat more algae than 10 Otocinclus. They need to be fed Spirulina Sticks because you won't be able to grow enough algae to support any Farlowella long term. I use six Farlowella as my algae eaters in my 125 gal planted Tetra tank. They keep the glass and plants spotless.
They will never harm any Apistogramma eggs or fry.

 

[dwarfpike]

People tell me I am crazy, but I bought a bristlenose female that was very aggressive. She would chase the otherwise dominate male Cr. compressiceps (probably the nastiest dwarf pike in terms of territorial behavior) as well and bully a pair of convicts even when they had fry. I've yet to want to try them again with smaller cichlids. No one believes me though. :frown:

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

They become more and more shy until they hide away and die.

Sorry to hear this, I'm pretty sure it isn't an issue with your Ancistrus, but it does sound like it might be stress related. Because the A. cacatuoides are involved I'd discount the hardness or pH, I recently had a phone call from someone who had bought some of mine and were delighted that they had spawned, but worried why he never got any fry, when I asked him where they were kept he said he'd put them in the tank with his Malawi cichlids in our local tap water (low in nitrates, but infinitely carbonate buffered to about 18dKH and 800microS conductivity) and he was worried that his Cuckoo Synodontis were eating the eggs.

My thoughts are that it is either a water quality or food issue. Planted tanks usually have good water in terms of NO3 etc, but is it "well water"? which might be high in heavy metals? or are you in a very agricultural area where pesticide traces are a possibility in the tap supply? or something you use in the house, insecticidal sprays again are a possibility? CO2 might be an issue as well if you use it? as sub lethal levels can stress fish?

The other thought is food, I feed my fish a lot of live food and frozen shrimp mix, but I'm told that some fish will dwindle on a pellet and flake only diet, presumably because it lacks essential vitamins or minerals.

cheers Darrel

 

[JasonC]

My thoughts are that it is either a water quality or food issue. Planted tanks usually have good water in terms of NO3 etc, but is it "well water"? which might be high in heavy metals? or are you in a very agricultural area where pesticide traces are a possibility in the tap supply? or something you use in the house, insecticidal sprays again are a possibility? CO2 might be an issue as well if you use it? as sub lethal levels can stress fish?

The other thought is food, I feed my fish a lot of live food and frozen shrimp mix, but I'm told that some fish will dwindle on a pellet and flake only diet, presumably because it lacks essential vitamins or minerals.

cheers Darrel

The water "shouldn't" be an issue. It is county water coming from a pretty suburban/urban area. I'll see if I can find a water report to see if there is anything abnormal being reported. Typically any insect control in the house is done with bait traps or paper towels.

As for food, I shamefully do have to admit that the only food being used is commercial flake, and occasionally a sinking pellet. Looks like when I decide to tackle these fish again (which may be soon... i'm starting to get that itch again), I am going to have to get over the fear and start some cultures. Any suggestions on the best (read: easiest and most effective) to try?

Best,

Jason