Panduro Spawn

[boydvd]

Hi Guys

my panduro pair appear to have spawned and am wondering how long the eggs will become free swimming fry.

the female started to guard her little pot about 5 days ago and keep in that area mostly. she darts out to check the situation and chases the 3 tetras to the other end of the 2 ft tank and heads back to her pot. the male swims around but rarely swims close to the pot. he occasionally chases the tetras as well. the tetras now pretty much stay in the far corner.

in the past my females have only kept to their pots for 2 days and i assume she would eat the eggs or they went off. this time she seems to be on constant vigil.

sad news is that my other panduro has been widowed. her mate died after black worm feeding. i seem to get random fish deaths from black worms so may avoid this altogether from now on.

 

[Mike Wise]

Most apistos become freeswimming fry after 7 day from spawning.

As for blackworms, well some swear by them and some swear at them. It really depends on where they are collected and how they are maintained. Let's face it, they live in an organic rich environment. If the water has fish pathogens, then the worms have a chance to take them in, too. I personally don't use them.

 

[boydvd]

hi mike,

good news!! this morning i woke to find my panduro with about 60-70 free swimming fry. all the heartache was worth seeing them swimming around. now do i need to wait a few days before feeding the microworms? i can't see any yolk sac.

also should i do part water changes every day?

thanks

 

[OHR]

Microworms will stay alive in your aquarium for a couple of days, they seem too attach themselves on leaves etc on the bottom. My wildcaught and adult fishes that has been raised on microworms also seek out and eat them. I`d start feeding them sparingly now. Increase the dose as you see them starting to eat. I`ve had success using an unneedled syringe to spray into plants or moss near the fry.

As for waterchanges I`d change less more often, constant temp. and quality increases survivalbility. So if you can be bothered with 10 or so percent daily waterchange the fry should do just fine.

BTW: i`ve seen some ciklids bring their fry quite big lumps of food which they chew and spit out in bits(like birds and mammals). In apistos i`ve seen the fry eat food exiting the parents gills.

Good luck!

(my first ever post in english, that`s a barrier broken for me :biggrin

 

[boydvd]

Thanks ohr, your post was very well written and your advice helpful. I started with the small water change today and also siphoned the new water into the tank with airhose tubing so as not to stress the babies. I am so amzed at how many fry there are.

They seem to pick at the microworms so will feed them more in the morning. I have also frozen baby brine I will feed tomorrow. I used a pipette syringe to get the worms close to the babies. The male attacked the pipette!

It's interesting u say some ciclids break up food fir their fry. That is probably why they grow faster and have better syrvivalif cared for by the parent fish.

The male is allowed very close to the fry and both patents gave killed a neon tetra and guppy dither fish. I have two remaining glo lite tetras in this tank. Should I remove them or leave them there? My instinct tells me not to disturb them.

 

[OHR]

Glad i could help

Ofcourse, you are aware that the water you put into the tank should be aired out (if there is chlorine in it) and be of equal watervalues and temperature? It never was a problem to me before i started it, but better safe than sorry.

I`d try too catch those other fish before they get killed or start eating of fry in the night. Putting some flakefood in the net could do the trick as bait for tetras and guppy.

I have read that microworms are good at absorbing nutrition from their media, so I use babyporrige or vitamins and oatgrain to make sure they are packed with the good stuff.

I am a firm beliver in raising ciklid fry with their parents or not breed them at all. Ciklids have great many broodcaring behaviors, which is part of the fascination for me. Just how they change colours indicate that breeding is something they take seriously. There are probably several factors that contribute to better health in fry growing up with their parents, some linked to the tank and some to parent behaviors.
As for this food breaking up food behavior I`m not sure if it comes from the parent feeding and bringing food to it self while being close to the fry or if it is a behavior designed primarely for the fry (or both). Especially in convict ciklids it seems to me that the parent bring chunks of food to the fry without eating self. Never found any links about it though.

 

[Tedstank]

Interesting thread here.

I am now a firm believer of leaving the fry with the parents. On my first few broods, I pulled the fry out as wigglers and put them in a "fry" tank. The motality rate was pretty high. I did notice that without the parents they were much less active and laid around on the bottom of the tank. Leaving them with the parents, the female keeps them moving around and feeding...much healthier fry!!

Also, I too have noticed that when feeding the adults, the young do feed on the particles, that exit the parents gills as they feed. I don't feel it is actually intentional feeding, other than the female is just never far from them....but it is definately a bonus.

 

[boydvd]

ok I took the tetras out and am regretting it a bit...

last night one minute tehre were fry eveyhwere. the next minute they are nowhere to be seen!!
a friend said she may be hiding them somewhere if she feels threatened. but there were so many before and now i can't see them at all.

it's not usual for apistos to eat their fry is it?

I'm hoping i see them later today but i honestly doubt it.

 

[OHR]

I`ve never breed Panduros, so I don`t know if it is common for them to eat their fry.

On a general note, the female will move the fry into hiding at the bottom if she feels they are threatened. She will signal to them and they respond, they learn to respond faster with time and this is why she will adopt other fry.
If she adopts a few older fry, hers will learn to dive quicker. If she adopts younger fry they will be slower to react and more likely to be eaten. In both cases increasing the odds of her brood.

 

[boydvd]

thats good to know... the first day the fry looked pretty out of control. last night they looked like they responded to her. but i went out and came home and found them gone altogther!!

i'm hoping she's trained them hide in their flower pot- fingers crossed

 

[boydvd]

GooD news. The babies are alive and well. The mum must have had them well hidden. Phew

 

[electric eel]

awesome about the spawn boydvd!i missed the thread as i was getting ready for and attending the aca convention.i've started rinsing and keeping my blackworms in chlorinated water in the fridge.i have'nt had any problems since i started doing this.the chlorine does'nt kill the blackworms(at least not the amount my local water company uses) and hopefully it kills some of the nasty things they can carry.i still plan on not using them though just as soon as my new earthworm culture starts producing well.

 

[boydvd]

Hi E.eel

what's an ACA conference? it's nice to have a spawn and the babies are doing well right now.

I think i may stay away from balckworms altogether. I found dragonfly larvae in one of my tanks yesterday... which is very scary. I think that would be the only way it coudl get int here.

earthworms sound interesting. i will look into them.

 

[electric eel]

the american cichlid association has an anual convention every year in july.my home aquarium society hosted it this year so i only had about an hour drive this year instead of the 9 hour drive i had to atlanta,georgia last year.they have speaker's and attendee's from all over the world(only usually a few from outside the u.s.)people bring all different kind of fish to sell.i picked up some really nice gold rams from a czech bred line(lots of orange) and was gonna get some more electric blues but many were dying and i was scared to bring them home.i did pick up a female for my spare male(from my buddies)i only have 20 survivors from the last spawn hoping to do better with the next ones.i ended up with a dragon fly larvae once(before i ever started using blackworms) i assumed one must have came in and laid in the tank(???)a couple in my club lost about 500dollars worth of fry because of one.i got lucky as it was in a tank of daphnia.very cool about the panduro though.i'm quite envious(not really-happy for you)i've read so many people say they could'nt get them to spawn.someone posted on here that the only panduro he sucessfully spawned came from apistodave and that he had tried a few other ones before them with no luck.
cheers craig