Panduro or Nijsseni?

[Dwarf_Dude]

Hey guys
i recently got a young male Apisto, and i am still debating whether it is an Panduro or a Nijsseni
its just under an inch and i believe its a male
thanks for the help

thanks again

DD

 

[Mike Wise]

Looks like A. nijsseni to me.

 

[Dwarf_Dude]

thanks lot for the ID

DD

 

[Peter Lovett1]

Hi Dwarf Dude,

If mike thinks its a Nijsseni its a Nijsseni.

Mike could you exspain why you think it is a Nijsseni and not a panduro.

 

[cootwarm]

I thought it was a nijsseni myself, but I didn't want to say because I only have 1 female nijsseni (males died during shipping).

My Panduro has simular (but brighter) colors on the fins, mostly blue with orange/red edges. The tail fin has a much wider orange/red band on it's edge. The long fins under the belly are very bright yellow/orange (sort of golden).

But the body is much paler, with almost no markings except for the black mark through the eyes. With none of the blue sparkles and dark markings showing in your photo.

This is what I see in mine. But colors do vary some from one specimen to another. I'm also curious about Mikes official differences.

Michael

 

[Mike Wise]

Differences are easy to see on mature fish:

A. nijsseni males have low even dorsal fin spines; A. panduro show slight but noticably elongated spines on the first 3-5 spines

A. nijsseni has a mouth with the the lower jaw even with the upper; A. panduro has a lower jaw that extends slightly beyond the upper jaw.

A. nijsseni males will often show a small round caudal spot; A. panduro males show a wedge-like patch that extends from the caudal spot backwards into the caudal fin.

Female A. nijsseni have a large flank spot that doesn't reach the ventral fin area; A. panduro females can have a broad band or flank blotch that extends onto the ventral fin area.

 

[Dwarf_Dude]

Thanks alot guys, really helped me alot for the future when buying these guys.

Peter - haha, dont worry, never doubted any of you, just wanted to make sure :wink:

DD

 

[Dwarf_Dude]

update

hey guys
i got an id that it was an panduro on cichlid-forum
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=503041#503041


so i am once again confused

DD

 

[mummymonkey]

hey guys
i got an id that it was an panduro on cichlid-forum
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=503041#503041


so i am once again confused

DD

I think you need to ask the contributors on the other forum why they think it's a panduro. Based on the characteristics Mike supplied, and on various other sources easily found on the web; it's seems to me to be a nijsseni.

Using the mark on the caudal peduncle alone - your specimen shows a small spot consistent with nijsseni; panduro have a triangle/wedge shape mark extending onto the caudal fin.

Disclaimer - I've owned nijsseni but not panduro.

 

[cootwarm]

Wow! Except for Peter, it looks like they are in almost total agreement that it's panduro! I'd stick by Mikes verdict as he's much WISEr on this subject. He has studied these tiny differences in Apistogrammas for years.

I have panduros myself and I do see the differences that Mike described. Especially noticable is the wedge shaped caudal spot that the point extends into the caudal fin. This triangular patch is almost always visable on my panduro. Even when it's faded because of the fishes mood, it's still a triangle shape.

I couldn't tell for sure if my panduro had an extended lower jaw, if so, it's very slight. But although mine are mature, they are still very young. Perhaps the lower jaw will extend further as the fish ages.

Michael

 

[Oupsy]

I have both panduro and nijsseni, and yours definetly looks like a nijsseni to me.

 

[Peter Lovett1]

Having been keeping cichlids for over twenty year, one of the things I find most frustrating is miss information and identification.

Dwarf_dude why you would prefer to take the identification of a general cichlid forum over that from a Dwarf Cichlid specific site and an id from one the most respected Dwarf Cichlid experts in the world. One of the reasons more people on this site did not express an opinion is because if Mike says it is a specie then there is a 99.9 chance that it is what he says it is.

Just because someone agrees with your point of view does not mean that it is right.

If you can produce a picture of your fish showing the triangular patch at the caudal peduncle I will agree with you that it is a panduro.

 

[Dwarf_Dude]

Peter, please undertsand that i never said it was a Panduro,
i just said that i got two different IDs from two very good forums.
so i was confused. that is all.

i will go by the judgement that it is a Nijsseni. I never even kn ew who Mike was until recently when i looked into the ASG site etc etc.
i can't just believe someone because you tell me to.
now i do
so just leave it.
can this thread be closed now?

 

[Mike Wise]

Hey, I'm not perfect. I make mistakes, too. :wink: