New to apistos...can't find them in Mass.

[Sandi]

Hi all, I am a newcomer to apistos but not the general hobby...I have been keeping various fish and plants since 197...well you guys don't need to know EXACTLY how long , anyway I have a couple of males that were sold as A. macmasteri but I have my doubts as they do not resemble any pics I have seen ;no red whatsoever on their fins/tail/body...definately apistos of some sort though. I would love to get them a couple of girls but don't know where to begin looking since it was a fluke that I found them in a local shop in the first place. I have them in a well planted open top 55, dirt/sand/floerite substrate with cocoanut fiber added to increase softness, temp is 76, ph generally runs about 6.4 and the water is medium-soft. Tankmates are 9 neons and 5 green-fire tetras, 5 pygmy corys, 4 juvenile wild-type rams (not bolivian-the little guys), 3 juvenile curvecept cichlids, 1 juvenile angel, 3 otto cats, 1 farlowella cat, 3 african dwarf frogs, a tiny mystic cat, and 2 plecos: a 2" reg. plec and a hefty 4" L number labled as a "blue suede". Everyone seems quite happy and I intend on culling the rams down to 1 pair and removing the curvecepts, angel, frogs (if I have to) and mystic cat in a couple of months. I change 10% every other day or so with cond. tap H2O which comes out of the tap at 7.0 moderately soft, I do not use Co2 in this tank...however I do have 260 watts of light on it. Any advice I can get regarding these fish/tank in referance to keeping my apistos happy will be greatly appreciated, I would love to get a few more and get these little guys to breed...might even dedicate my basement to a fishroom for them if all goes well. Thanks all!

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Sandi,

I ran into the same problem here in Vermont. No Apistos! The rare occasions they do show up, they're either in bad shape or mis-identified. I solved my problem by mail order. I bought my apistos from ApistoDave who shipped them to me all the way from Oregon. They arrived in excellent shape. But I would wait 4 to 6 weeks until the outside temperature is regularly in the 50's or so.

I tried some in 10, 20, and 30 gallon tanks. I found 10 gallons to be difficult. In this small of a tank, the fish don't usually act natural. They're either too stressed out or always wary and on guard. Only the smallest or most peaceful apistos are comfortable in a 10.

They were more comfortable in 20 gallon tanks, but you'll probably still need to do some creative aquascaping to make it comfortable for a trio.

My favorite size is 30 gallon. It's large enough for a trio to feel right at home in. Yet it's small enough to move by myself when I need to. A 30 gallon provides enough space for them to act naturally with few inhabitions. Beside it's cool to watch more than one family group of mother and fry swim about the tank.

About your McMasteri, how old are they? It took quite a while for my male viejita to show their good colors. If they are young they might need more time for the reds to develope.

Michael

 

[Sandi]

apistos in Mass.

Hi Micheal, I do not know the age of my little guys but they are about 2 1/4 inches long including tail, and have a lot of bright blue coloration on their heads. Basically they are a whiteish silver-blue fish with different shades of blue patterns. The pattern on their sides is a combination of horizontal stripe
and or spots/dots/dashes depending on their mood. Both anal and dorsal fins extend well into the tail area and end in sharp point and the dorsal has a few black tipped spines on the very front of the fin that extend slightly further than most of the spines, this is much more noticeable on the more dominant one but it may be because he seems to flair his fins a bit more. Tail has a dark area at the base that doesn't seem to change w/ their mood. I have asked the LFS to get some females as well as several other apistos in the hopes that I can get a female for them. I will try to borrow a digital camera to get some pics of them...doubt I can get any good shots thou...I tend to only get good close-ups of my own thumb when trying to take a picture of something else :roll: .

 

[Sandi]

by the way...

By the way...who is Apisto Dave and where can I see his stuff?

 

[mervin]

Hi Sandi,
Apistos DAve is David Soarse and he is a apistos breeder. He has also "teamed" with Dr Uwe Romer, the German author of Cichlid Atlas.

here is their website.

Good Luck !!!!
mervin
:wink:

http://apistogrammaidiots.com

 

[Sandi]

Thanks! I will check that out!

 

[farm41]

Neil has apistos too, just click on the apistogramma logo at the top left of the page to get to the price list

 

[Sandi]

Thanks for all of the help guys! I have checked out both suggested sites and made my wish list...now just have to wait for spring temps .

 

[Neil]

Sandi,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

anyway I have a couple of males that were sold as A. macmasteri but I have my doubts as they do not resemble any pics I have seen ;no red whatsoever on their fins/tail/body...definately apistos of some sort though.

I wouldn't assume that they are not macmasteri because of the lack of color (or that they are both males for that matter). There are many species-forms of macmasteri and many reasons that one is more colorful than another.

I intend on culling the rams down to 1 pair and removing the curvecepts, angel, frogs (if I have to) and mystic cat in a couple of months.

]

That may be appropriate to keep the peace and give the apistos the optimum situation possible.

however I do have 260 watts of light on it. Any advice I can get regarding these fish/tank in referance to keeping my apistos happy will be greatly appreciated,

I have found that a great deal of illumination and a heavily stocked tank, dilute the perfect situation for Apistogramma. Increasing the cover that is available to them, while maintaining some outgoing fish (ie, tetras, etc.) will help in their level of comfort in the tank. However, unless they have far fewer tankmates, it is unlikely that they will have a great deal of luck protecting fry.

would love to get a few more and get these little guys to breed...might even dedicate my basement to a fishroom for them if all goes well.

Breeding tanks is the better option for successful apisto reproduction, but not absolutely necessary. It just will be more difficult to get very many babies to make it to maturity in a community tank. I don't know about a basement full, but a dedicated tank for apisto breeding might allow you to give you the best chance. There is no reason not to try it in your 55 though!

Good luck,

Neil

 

[Sandi]

my macmasteri's

Hi Neil, I have already removed my angel and curvecepts- I also raised the light a few more inches ( the tank is an open top chuck full of plants) one of my apistos has already claimed a cave and the other has claimed an area that I will be adding a cave to today. The behavior seems to be indicative of males; they both spar quite a bit w/ the rams and defend their little territories with much vim and vigor, neither act anything like my ram females which are much more demure in temperment. The store has gotten some more from the same suppliers and was told that they were sent some definate females, according to the fish guy at the store the females seem to be of a different color and have less extensive finnage; does this sound right to you? I will hopefully be buying some females today, should I try to get a couple for each male? Thanks for your patience w/ all my questions
Sandi

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Sandi,

I hope your macmasterii aren't really Apistogramma sp. "Steel Blue".
I was re-reading your original post and your description sounds like Steel Blue to me. It's thought to be a hybrid and females are either rare or don't exist.

I bought some last year from my LFS as agassizii, but of course they weren't. This same LFS got some more in a few months ago, but labeled them Steel Blue even though his distributor sold them to him as agassizi again. I saw some at a different LFS just last week, Steel Blue labeled as borellii.

I would post a picture, but at the moment I have no means to do this. Do a search here on the forum for "Steel" AND "Blue" exactly the way I typed it. You should be able to find a photo there to compare to.

Michael

 

[Sandi]

steel blue?

Hi all...well before I read this last post I went back to the LFS and bought ALL of the new stock they had...6 more of the same type. I do not know if they are the steel blues mentioned but some have a yellow tint to their bodies and slightly less elaborate fins...these also have a slightly different eye area coloration which I can only describe as ... "softer" in pigment and expression. The color imeadiately around the eye area is much lighter (as is most of the head area) giving the illusion of slightly larger eyes. Does this sound familliar to anyone? I am flying in the dark w/ no radar as far as species goes and I am not going to make any judgements until they mature a bit.

Sandi

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Sandi,

I found a photo of a Steel Blue:
http://www.aaf.or.kr/apis/gallery4/sp/steelblue/steelblue.htm

Is this what you have?

Michael

 

[Sandi]

Steel blue

Yup that's them :cry: ...now what do I do?

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Sandi,

Ahhh...the old "Steel Blue", AKA "What ever they feel like calling it".

If you have a male & female you could try spawning them.

Females are supposed to be rare or non-existant. Some people have said they found females but they seemed weak and didn't last long. Others have been looking for females quite a while. They find plenty of males, but no females so they don't believe females even exist. Mine were males and I donated them to my wife's 55 gallon community tank.

I don't think it's known for absolutely certain that they are a hybrid or not. They're strongly suspected to be hybrid because they all seem to come from Asia (rumour has it they were hybridized in Singapore), they seem to be everywhere (and cheap), they're usually exclusively male and they seem to be often sold as something they're not. This is the last info I've heard about the "Steel Blue". I guess it'll take the experts a while to get to the bottom of it.

Michael

 

[Sandi]

steel blue

Hi Micheal, I guess I will have to wait and see what I have... I have 8 of them in my 55 and I guess there is always a chance that I could have gotten lucky and got a female or 2 :? The good news is if I do not want to keep them I could always bring them in to where I work (LFS) and resell them to people w/ a community tank as just something pretty. My boss won't give me credit though. I feel bad for them because I know they would be much happier in my 55 set up as breeding pairs...but you can't get 2 boys to co-operate in this fashion...let alone 8 :cry: . If nothing else I have learned a valuble lesson for only $50-, don't always trust the lable at a fish store unless the fish in question are locally bred :wink: ...you would think I would already know this since I work in a LFS myself but I guess I just sucummed to that old fishkeepers disease "gotta-have-it-itis".

 

[cootwarm]

Hi Sandi,

Don't feel too bad, I did the same thing, except mine were labeled agassizi. They were my first apistos also. Luckily there were only 3 left so that was all I was able to buy! After, I felt like I bought counterfeit apistos!

Michael

 

[Sandi]

Micheal, where did you get your "real" apistos?

 

[cootwarm]

I got mine from ApistoDave off aquaBid. In a few weeks I plan to order some wild caught apistos from Mike Jacobs in Florida. http://www.geocities.com/mikefjacobs/pricelist.html

Neil sells apistos also.

Michael

 

[M0oN]

I got mine from ApistoDave off aquaBid. In a few weeks I plan to order some wild caught apistos from Mike Jacobs in Florida. http://www.geocities.com/mikefjacobs/pricelist.html

Neil sells apistos also.

Michael

thumbs up on Jacob's, he's a great guy...I'm getting 6 panduro through him as soon as my tank's cycled, already set aside for me.