Need Id for 3 wild Apistogramma

[jose_vogel]

Hello, though I read the forum since one year ago, this is my first post in this forum.

I´m from Buenos Aires, Argentina and I´m deeply oriented to Apistos and, in second place to planted aquaria.

Unfortunatelly, here the shops only have 3 Apistos (borelli, commbrae and trifasciata). I´ve managed to breed all of them several times.

Two months ago, for first time in five years, a shop had "news" Apistos. They told me there were from Perú (but really, I´m not so sure) and all of them were wild caught.

So, after this introduction, I´d like some of you help me with the identification of them (there are three: 1 male, 1 female -I´ve juveniles from them- and another male (I´m not sure about the sex of the last one).

I think they´re A. eunotus sp. "orangeflössen".

Thanks in advance and forgive for any mistake in the writing.

Female:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/femaleA_04.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/femaleA_03.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/femaleA_02.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/femaleA_01.jpg

Male:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/MaleA_04.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/MaleA_03.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/MaleA_02.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/MaleA_01.jpg

Almost sure a male:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/jose__vogel/Apistos_id/MaleB_01.jpg

 

[Greg PL]

I also bought my as A. eunotus, but it seems they are A. cf. eunotus "Orange tail" or sth. you will find the name in the forum. very sturdy fish, easy to keep and breed.

some year ago I also got a similar fish under the name of A. sp. "Mamore Orange". they seem to have a bit deformed scales on the body closer to the tail, but present better glitter on the whole flank. the male's tail seems a bit less intense in color than the previous mentioned (perhaps because of the brown water I have in the tank), but the dominant one has a very long "upper sword" on the tail.
they were eager to breed, but I had no time to raise the fry and now I have no females left.

 

[Mike Wise]

Jose, Greg is correct. Your fish are A. cf. eunotus Orangetail/Orangeschwanz.

Greg, your "Mamore Orange" are probably a cross between 2 different species. A. cf. eunotus Orangetail/Orangeschwanz originates in the lower Rio Ucayali of Peru - nowhere near the Rio Mamoré. Deformed scales on the caudal peduncle are a classic sign of a hybrid apisto.

 

[jose_vogel]

Thank you both, Greg and Mike.

But, in the las photo the fish -for me- is really different from the previous one.

Do you think the last one is a male A. cf. eunotus "orangetail", too?

 

[Greg PL]

Greg, your "Mamore Orange" are probably a cross between 2 different species. A. cf. eunotus Orangetail/Orangeschwanz originates in the lower Rio Ucayali of Peru - nowhere near the Rio Mamoré. Deformed scales on the caudal peduncle are a classic sign of a hybrid apisto.

Mike, that would be also my first idea, if not for the source of the fish. I would never expect this guy to hybridize and sell fish as different species.
You never know, but I'm still fairly certain of his good intentions.
I'll have to solve this puzzle soon...

 

[Mike Wise]

Do you think the last one is a male A. cf. eunotus "orangetail", too?

Are you are asking about: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a6...id/MaleB_01.jpg ? It could be a different species, possibly A. sp. Pebas. The photo does not show enough characteristics to be certain.

 

[Rolo]

It could be a different species, possibly A. sp. Pebas. The photo does not show enough characteristics to be certain.

Hi Mike,

It looks like A. sp. "Nanay" (sensu Koslowski) to me. What do you think?

regards,
Rolo

 

[Mike Wise]

It could very well be A. sp. Nanay. This species, however, has a caudal spot that is well separted from the lateral band. As I said before, the photo does not show enough characteristics to be certain.